SIS Archives -- September 1999

"An armed population is a polite population" ??????
Who's kidding who?

It seems to me that govenrments mostly local and state, but even the Federal government SHOULD be involved but are not OBLIGATED to be involved in the arts. Expression through the arts is part of the very fabric of the country. Funding of PBS is essential for the survival of smaller markets such as here. Should Barney funnel the beacoup $$ he coups from merchandise back to PBS? Certainly! Still 90%+ of funds are obtained outside the Fed offerings.

However, this is a double edged sword. It is unreasonable if public $$ supports an art facility or enterprise, that the consituents and elected officials that represent them will not and should not have an influence on the content. The best way to do that is to seek representation on those boards, volunteer to put together exhibits, and put the word out on the street. For poiliticians, they would be derelict of duty if they did not get on the bully pulpit if offensive material is displayed. Certainly if dung were on top of the Star of David, the Koran, or even pictures of Babe Ruth, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, the President of NOW, gay rights leader etc etc. there would be outcries and talk of "hate crimes/speech." Does Mayor Rudy have the right to whine and threaten to reduce funding if an offensive pattern continues? Probably. There is no contract that government MUST support art without the taxpayers concensus.

Does he have the right to physically withdraw the offensive "piece" of art or close the museum? NO, because that's *censorship* whether in Gotham or River City! To recap: it's a fact of life though that if public funds are involved, there's no carte blanche. Perhaps more private fundraising or selling art over the internet is in order if we want to cut the umbilical cord of govenment subsidies. That's a decision for each municipality to make. Baaaallllllszzaaaaccc!!!

fezo--WHAT is in the water?? I also had a Steely dream last night, though not anywhere near as entertaining as yours. I was among a bunch of people hanging out with Mr. Becker, simultaneously trying to know what was going on and trying to efface myself as much as possible. Got to chat with him, worrying the entire time that I was being an idiot. It was by the ocean, and he was in white (back off already with your Messiah interps). He played some tracks--none complete--from The New One as we all were so busy stealing wide-eyed looks at each other we could scarcely listen. Of course I can't remember how any of it sounded.

YGK--Maybe his name should be Offali.

RB--I beg to differ, as usual. Of course art should be the government's business. How else are you going to karmically counterbalance all the megatonnage of nukes, nerve gas, and nasty counterinsurgents? Artists have enough goddamn trouble trying not to starve. Why not reward creativity and the search for beauty and the stretching of the human spirit as well as aerospace engineering ripoff artists? There are many artists (and thousands of works which do NOT get the press that a few scatological ones do) who are as much national treasures worthy of maintenance as buildings or parks.

Alta--You're on.

Lars--Whoa, some list. Mr. F & Mr. B didn't play on (or arrange) the Woody disc, but I bet they had a ball listening. I can't believe nobody corrected me, but Chick Corea composed and arranged his side--he DIDN'T play on it. Sorry. If anybody wants a tape of CDW&W, e me. BTW, another bit of trivia--one of Woody Herman's trombonists, Birch Johnson, plays the solo on "Teahouse on the Tracks" on "Kama."

Fan o'--can you teleconference that? I'm GREEN!

OMIO--World with no guns + drunks vs. vice versa--um, you sure these are the only choices? There is a distinction between "gun nuts" and "gun owners." The nine inch nails would make absolutely no difference. People would just start hanging their fuzzy dice from them.

f#--I got that step DOWN.

Hey,

Yeah, this "art" contoversy is ridiculous. It always seems that artists with little artistic talent are the ones that have to pull the media stunts in order to be seen. YGK is exactly right: if this was called by any name other than one with religious significance, it would be attracting very little attention. Why? Because it's crap on canvas. I completely understand an artists need to express his/her self. But, let's face it - what is it that is being expressed? Do we know what the artist is trying to convey? Please don't tell me that it is open-ended specifically so it can be interpreted by each patron, because that's crap, too. It's only purpose is to shock, and give the artist exposure. It's like a guy standing on a street corner screaming, "Fuck You!", over and over again. All he's trying to do is get attention. He has nothing meaningful to say otherwise, but he knows if he does this, he's getting exactly what he set out to accomplish. A few years back in Chicago, there was a painting in an exhibit in the Art Museum of the late mayor Harold Washington wearing a dress. Well, when the city council found out about it, all hell broke loose. Aldermen and women, along with the Chicago police (!) stormed the museum and confiscated the painting. It wasn't even a good painting, but the guy got what he wanted - attention. If somone took a picture of me pissing at the mouth of a cave, and called it "Hermit Pissing", people wouldn't think of it as art. But, call it "Pissing On Christ's Tomb", and suddenly it's art! Wow, how dare he piss on Christ's tomb. give me a break.
Perhaps in the future, junk like that should just be ignored, instead of being fussed over. Then people would be forced to view the work for what it is, without all media build-up. Every artist, whether visual, musical, print, whatever, wants to succeed. And most times they need to market themselves in order to be heard. Kiss wore make-up. John Waters had a scratch and sniff movie. The thing is, when all the extraneous shit is stripped away, the product or the message still hao be good, or people will realize it, and not care anymore. This, hopefully, forces the artist to dig deeper and find something that will speak to people for a long time, instead of merely piquing their morbid curiosity for a weekend.

Later,

Herm

....and just WHO do you think Lord Tariq is anyway? Yo, hommes, it's just Donald showing his 'black' side....."

I have a friend who might have dissed Rick Reilly, but did it ever cross your mind that she might have her tongue placed firmly in her cheek. I thought it was bloody funny

weirdos

10 out of 10 non-alcoholics die

Q

Ruby: There are some in the art community who will declare how significant the art in the Saatchi collection is. I am not one of them. I have my own theories. And while I will defend the museum for taking creative risks, I won't defend the exhibit on it's own.
They should have the right to show it, if they think it's important.

I'd prefer to say the exhibit's not Scot-tish, and therefore.....
it's CRAP! (And, in a way, it IS!)

It's amazing the depths someone eccentric enough as Saatchi will go to decleare his 'taste'.
I will close on this by saying that if a work of art really had substance, it wouldn't need hype, it wouldn't need to be Sensational. Now imagine if Offili's "Holy Mary" or whatever its called was renamed to anything else. All of a sudden, the blasphemy goes away. No problem. Just a bad piece of art with little relevance. If someone wants to offend, it's a pretty easy thing to do. (Hey, watch me offend Clas and Lars in two minutes and in under 20 words! Won't you feel I'm 'talented' then?)
And let's not forget that this 'freedom of expression thing' is a precursor to our 'freedom of religion thing'.

and "Somewhere, some writer is sending his new bit to SNL called "Collage Crap!"

Ruby- You really took the cake with that "Donald Fagen is black" remark.

Ruby: We've found your head.

I know it wasn´t meant for me Ruby, but you must have a very interesting dictionary... .

Ruby Baby - Uh, I think Donald Fagen's Jewish and not African American.

> I've noticed some similarities between Donald Fagen and him.
> (besides the fact that they're both African American.)

Eh?

"into things in which" very bad grammar. Fix it any way y'all would like.

sociable herm: I meant to tell you before - thanks for explaining to me about men. It's not something that is often put into words, and with such clarity! You'd probably get along great with my guy. However, we've got an arrangement that only allows me to be inside his inner circle. Other women have to keep a certain distance...

ygk: I was wondering what you thought about that exhibit. I was hoping you'd think it was tasteless.
I don't even think it's art. If someone shit on a shingle, would it be a work of art? Or would it be dinner? Or would it just be a waste of a good shingle? (Different strokes for different folks.)
This is why our government should never use tax dollars for such endeavors. It drags the taxpayers into things in which are irrelevent to the purpose of government. Let individuals or special interest groups fund such operations. If this Charles Saatchi guy had footed the bill, it would be another story. In order to have a good foundation for the First Amendment, there ought to be a clear separation of government from these entities. Just mho.

clas: var ligge du, min befalhavare?

Anyone here a Nat King Cole fan? I've noticed some similarities between Donald Fagen and him. (besides the fact that they're both African American.)

rb

Howard's site is the best you'll find for accurate chords and guitar tab on SD songs, IMO. He's got lots of other artists on there as well.
The guy's got a great ear.
Check out his "Chord Theory 101" page.

Hutch

Is there somewhere a fella can pick up a video of SD in concert?

D. Fagen:

Thanks for posting chords to "Kid Charlemagne".

When you cut and pasted them from my website (www.ph.ed.ac.uk/~haw/music/music/tabfiles.html#steelydan), you should have double checked the formatting problem - I think that's why the Bb13 ended up in the wrong place, no?

If anyone else wants to check up on Dan chords, feel free to visit. As others have mentioned, getting guitar chords from the Steely Dan songbooks is just a waste of time ...

Oh, no-one posted the chords to the solo/instrumental part, so here they are:

INSTRUMENTAL
-------------

E7#9 A7 Dm7 F/C B7 E7 Am G6

Fmaj7 Em7 Dm7 B7 Em7 D6 Cmaj7 Em7 D6/E

Am G6 F6/9 Bb13 F G Am G6

Dm7 Em7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 Em7 Dm7

C7#9

chord shapes for previous chord postings and for this chunk all available from my site.

YGK: great analysis of Mayor Rudy's latest attempts the rid the city of all civil liberties. God damn it, if I want to see the Virgin Mary covered with poop, it's my constitutional right.

Apparently, the "artist" in question, Ofilli, is well known for such creations. Mary is not the first person to be so covered. A cynic would wonder if the mayor would have been so upset if Hillary had been similarly depicted.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Vine/1766/sounds/sounds.html

to hear Tori Amos' version of "Do It Again,"

hell, I ain't a fan, but it's intresting to hear...she did a great job....

omio,
interesting theory. do you think the children who were shot to death in l.a., texas and colorado and numerous other places by your compatriot gun owners would have behaved even worse had there been no guns to keep them in line?

One More Thing: BTW - the words "disgusting and repulsive" have been used with alarming frequency this past week. The words have been used to describe both the state of golf in America by some visiting British, and the state of art visiting America created by the British.

It seems like THEIR freedom of expression is something many Americans disagree with....

ygk

Freakin' PR: Well, it's a complex question. What do I think of the exhibit itself? or the Mayor's Morality play? I didn't realize we lived in a Fascist Society.

Basically, the City has a non-voting seat on the Board of Directors for the Brooklyn Museum of Art. They have for quite some time, now. They didn't show for several meetings - or they were asleep - and didn't realize that this exhibit, "Sensation" was coming.

And then, all of a sudden, WHAM!

The Museum get's $7 million in city funds, and our Mayor Rudy is attempting to stop the payment of funds because he doesn't like the exhibit, stating the exhibit is offensive to Catholics, a major group he needs to win the Senate next year when he runs against Hillary. He cites not more than half a dozen works, the most notable now, by Chris Ofilli, who made a painting called, "The Holy Virgin Mary", which features a collage made up of cutouts from pornographic magazines and features elephant dung secured conspicuously as part of her exposed breast. (If he had called it anything else, I don't think people would have bothered with it at all.)

So it comes down to a First Amendment Issue. The Museum's lawyers have pointed out that, even though the city provides some funds to a Museum, the decision to do so DOES NOT allow them to renege on the deal if they don't like the content. They are stating that they will support the arts in that capacity of the museum, etc.....and provide funding for cultural exchange, etc. It's not a conditional situation.

But now I hear the Senate is getting involved and that's just too fuckin' wild, people.

The Museum's intent was to raise their box office - which this undoubtedly will do. However, now the Feds and the City are beginning to act like all these cult groups said they were.
This is legitimately scary.

From my small organization's standpoint, which is holding two exhibits in October, we are attempting to use the word 'Sensation' to our advantage. "New Modern American Art Sans Sensation" is the grouping of our next two exhibits. They feature new works by relatively unknown artists, but the work is real quality and has a great deal of substance, unlike - in my not so humble opinion - the work in the Sensation exhibit.

Also, keep in mind that the exhibit is work collected by one guy - Charles Saatchi - and it's his taste we are experiencing. Also, any hype the exhibit receives adds 'value' to the works within the collection, so now, not only is Guiliani making a fuss over bad art, but he's increasing it's value!

I think overall the BMA made a poor decision. While I - and we, the organization - support BMA's ability to present provocotive artwork, personally, and like other institutions like the Metropolitan, the Whitney and some others, we don't give the collection much merit.

sorry for the ramble - big questions call for big answers - and I just scratched the surface.....

ygk

Poor little trike: No one loves you. Mommy was too mean.

Squeeze your little horn.

ATBP*

oleander: I don't know why I left Victor Feldman off my posted list. His name was on the list IN FRONT OF my computer. I probably just couldn't read my own scribbling. My error.

Freakin' PR: How did you know I have BBQ's?

Can't remember who: Someone remarked about Elvis Costello on the SNL anniversary show. I just happened to read that day that the idea of him recreating the famous song change wasn't even SNL's idea. Originally, SNL had only hired the Beastie Boys to appear that night. During rehearsals, they decided to play an Elvis song for the show, but then were somewhat reluctant, since they thought that if they sung one, they might sound stupid. Then they hit upon the recreation idea, and called Elvis himself to see if he'd be interested in joining them on stage. Seems Elvis was all for the idea, and it turns out that he is somewhat a fan of the Beasties. Then I read a few days later, that in the wee small hours of the after show party, Elvis, Steven Tyler, Dan Ackroyd, and Paul Shaefer were in some extended blues jam. Hopefully, Ackroyd eventually got too tired and fell asleep, leaving those who were still around to hear some good music.

Later,

Herm

fezo: That sounds like the greatest show ever!

My obsessed self had yet another dream about our heroes last night. It's a concert. Donald comes out first dressed like that Andy Kaufman lounge lizard character, telling bad jokes, chumming up to everyone, then sits down at the piano and does a pretty good version of "Babylon Sister". Song ends, Donald resumes patter, pretty soon Walter comes running out like he's being introduced as one of the starting five of the Knicks, chugging a bottle of Jack. Walter and Donald do about 10 minutes of stand-up of the Abbott and Costello variety before doing some more songs.

Then they convince three audience members, including yours truly, to come up on stage so they can view the rest of the show from their perspective. But the seats turn out to be catapults I discover much too late.

Criminal = The Fez

Shadowboxer = Pretzel Logic

NB: I'm really diggin' that ode to the Apple rap rip-off of Black Cow... "eNwhY, worl'wide..."

Clas: okay, you just invited everyone to call me if they wish to send you money. I think I'm safe here.

clas: "IF you are obeying my orders."
ruby: "Ja, kyss my ass!" (do you take me seriously?)

How much is a D#m7 worth? I thought I heard someone say "that and 75 cents will get you a cup of coffee."

stranger: guns in one place? no more sitcoms? I say we get right to the heart of the matter and outlaw telemarketing. Those intrusive, lying, good-for-nothing, swindling preditors. Not to mention rude... We just give 'em the old duck call around here.

rb

Hey Clas:

Yourkeyboardhasaspacebarforareason.Useit.

...an armed society is a Polite society.. Like being a Drunk, there's nothing like personal accountability for one's words & deeds... Is there an Assholes Anonymous?
Basically, one AA is the same as another, because the psychological dynamics are the same..
Would you rather live in a world where there were no guns, and everyone was a drunk, or in a world with no alcohol & everyone was armed?
Cripes, I know Hells Angels have more civil discussions than a lot of the exchanges in this GB..
I guess they're in better contact with their Inner Barbarian than those who don't bet their lives & jawbones with every word they say..
Violence doesn't start with the weapon.. It starts in your heart & mind.. Usually with ill-considered, reactionary mouthing off..
One traffic safety engineer suggests that replacing the seatbelts & airbags we have to protect us from our own lousy driving with a dashboard full of 9" spikes would do a lot more to reduce collisions than any other method... Same idea.

I just got a copy of Crosby, Pevar & Raymond (CPR).. Who mention Steely Dan & have some very Dannish sounds going on..
How about a chord-structure analysis & comparison, just to keep your hands where I can see 'em..?
Bang! You're it..

Herm: 5 grand on a cave audio system. Sweet. I want to be at your next BBQ.

YGK: Hey, I come in peace. What is your take on the Brooklyn art exhibit?

"Thanks RubyBaby! You know I love you. IF you are obeying my orders."

I don't know what I mean with "IF you are obeying my orders". But you know me, you don't take things I say around here seriously?

See, now I have forgot why I logged in...

... yeah, shouldn't you Sign In Stranger-regulars give me a price for correcting that wrong chord (D#m7)? Black Friday will sound better now when they play it live. Is there any chance that mr Nichols can change the A#-note to an A-note on Alive In America?

I can stretch it so far that I think mr Becker and mr Fagen should give me a price. My emailaddress is below. Or make it a telephonecall, and I'll give you my emailaddress. My birthday is Oct 9. Just as Jackson Browne and John Lennon.

Call RubyBaby if you can't afford to call abroad, she has my number. Email me and I'll give you her number. Greeting from Sweden Steely Dan!

You don't mind RubyBaby?

C

Lew Chang
Good to see you are still alive and well!
Good News!!!!!
Danfest 99 at Kiama,NSW,Australia, Begins this Sunday at 11.30am

Agenda includes:-
Good food,wine,beer,Live Steely Dan Video,Live In the Studio, Aja Interview (with cue sheets ofcourse)
more beer,hard to get recordings of our beloved SD,more beer and food,etc.

All welcome

RSPV ASAP

Thanks RubyBaby! You know I love you. IF you are obeying my orders.

Altamira, could you email me please, I don't wanne discusse AA here. I ask nicely.

atelje.lundkvist@swipnet.se

AA, when all my drinking is thru, I run to you...

Hermit again; of course they played together under Bird´s direction as sidemen.

Havent seen much from the Oz conection lately!.....Mr Chow...Fanofdan, what`s going down??, maybe your tapeing some videos!!!!! Ha Ha

Hermit - but I cant find any recording with Ray Brown and Miles.
Another bass-player almost made it - Harvey Brooks - who toured with The NYR&S but never recorded.

ok, this is probably not the dfinitive list but here´s the 12 men:

Marcus Miller
Phil Woods
Jerome Richardson
Benhard Purdie
Joe Sample
Wayne Shorter
David Sanborn
Chuck Findley
Victor Feldman
Larry Carlton
Tom Barney (1 track on Star People)
John Beasley (on the postumus (??) Time after time)

I cant find any recordings with Miles and Bulluck.
Did D&W actually play on the Woody Herman project?

Oleander,
It's EDDIE Higgins. Good pianist, but not a lot of bite to him. What he provides is terrific background music when you're doing other things. Sort of like a jazzed Mozart. 'Haunted Heart' is piano, bass, drums and that's it. I believe you could hear a sample of his album over on cdnow.com This is a paid advertisement.

Why don't gun nuts all live in one section of the country? Nebraska maybe. Or Montana. We ought to put that in the Constitution. Along with a law against sitcoms.

O: damn this procrastinating... Sure, I'm easy. Check out this one. AiA alum Dennis Chamber amy get an award for working with the most Miles sidemen and ALMOST working with Miles himself. Mr. Chambers started his recording career with George Clinton/Funkadelic/Parliament and went on to work with Miles illuminaries:
John Mclaughlin, Foley, Darryl Jones, John Scofield, Kenny Garrett, Bill Evans, Hiram Bullock, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, and Marcus Miller. He recorded on a Kenny Garrett album entitled "Prisoner of Love" in which Miles contributed...BUT they did not play on the same tracks!

Dennis Chambers has also worked with the Brecker Bros., Mr. Steve Khan, Mitchell Froom, and a Wayne Krantz CD with Anthony Jackson!

A - Ah, yes, as 10 out of 10 people die whether they drink or not. That's life, and death, and we make the best of it we can. As the bumpersticker says, eat healthy food, exercise regularly, and die anyway. There's no way around that limitation.

Soc Herm: I'm fairly certain John Beasley played with Miles on one or more of his last recordings....

ygk

Oleander - I will make my debut into the pool with February 20 - releasing the New One would be a fitting way for Walter to celebrate his 50th birthday. Of course, Donald might want to release it on January 10 to celebrate his 52nd birthday, but those decade birthdays make such impressive milestones.

10 out of 10 alcoholics die.

Herm--Victor Feldman was on "Seven Steps to Heaven" and in fact I think he wrote that tune. "Chick, Donald, Walter, and Woodrow" was indeed a '78 album done by Woody Herman with his arrangements of Steely tunes on one side and a Chick Corea arrangement on the other, "Suite For A Hot Band," on which Corea played. So this is a reach--they didn't actually play together, but held up opposite sides of a disc united by Woody Herman and his band.

Mu--so if we're reaching, we could include Horace Silver for the quote of "Song For My Father" in "Rikki."

Hey you guys, as the days roll by the Betting Pool is looking pretty pitiful. Anybody want to update their guesses for first quarter of '00?

I agree with everything JW said regarding the VS series, except I'd recommend springing for the internal FX card.

My 880 has given me ZERO problems since I've owned it.

I also run XLR thru my Mackie so lack of them on the VS isn't a problem.

Her Brother: Ray Brown played string bass on "Razor Boy".

Later,

Herm

Clas: Be the one out of ten. "Don't give up - you've got the music in you."

rb

Herm: Just found a link to a compilation chart for the sidemen from Downbeat. I'm swamped - sending you to the library...Bullock and Beasely are listed for what it's worth. Some of the other mentioned are not, so it may not be complete

http://www.nettally.com/dbird/Legacy.htm

Robert: we're laughing WITH him...there's no record of the real Robert P. returning the $$ he earned for Victor/Victoria.

Midnite ~

A. Regarding your three choices on the Roland units: Don't buy the 840. If you plan on writing any extended pieces, the Zip drive could cause capacity problems. Also, the user interface (faceplate/mixer) is somewhat squished, hence lots of softkeys with a zillion different functions to remember. The 1680 is the preferable way to go, but if you want to come in under 2k, go with the 880EX. If you've got a rack full of outboard gear, don't bother with the extra internal effects card. I've got both (outboard gear and the effects card), and hardly ever use the internal effects. Don't get me wrong, the effects and amp simulators sound great, but the effect card user interface leaves something to be desired. You can always add it later if you so desire.

B. Regarding the 1/4"/XLR input issue: Here's how I deal with it ~ I run all my synths/mics/guitars/etc. through my Mackie mixer, which solves the XLR problem on the 880. The Mackie has good mic pre-amps, as I'm sure your Studiomaster does, and I give my Rode NT2/other mics additional boost with an Aphex 107 tube mic pre-amp. I then run the master outs from the Mackie into inputs 1/2 of the 880. The net/net is: you completely circumvent the limited input/XLR issue. Example ~ I'll write a MIDI bed which utilizes 6+ different synths, get the mix just right using external effects via the aux sends, and track the entire bed (master out) to tracks 1/2 on the 880, panning L/R hard. You then have 6 tracks free (excluding virtual tracks) to begin layering acoustic instruments and/or vocals without bumping. And, because it's digital the bumping (if you need to, within limits) causes near-zero degeneration (at least to my frazzled ears). You can also slave the VS to your sequencer in mix mode, meaning you don't have to use ANY tracks for your MIDI beds.

C. Regarding the digital workstation vs. computer hard disk recording: I've got both, and they both serve specific purposes ~ I use Cubase VST (digital audio/MIDI sequencer) if I'm trying to build Beck/Garbage-type music that is heavily loop/sample oriented. You can do that type of composing on the VS, but it's a bitch looking at that little screen for hours on end. It's like trying to build a spreadsheet on a palmtop PC. The majority of stuff that I write is conventional MIDI bed with acoustic stuff on top, ala 11TOW. The VS works fine for this type of recording. Advantages of the VS over hard disk recording:

1. You can take it with you. If I need a killer lead guitar track, I'll often just drag my 880 over to one of my guitarist friend's house, and mic his cabinet directly into the 880. Saves them setup/teardown time, and saves me from listening to neighbors bitch about a Marshall stack being played at full-punch.

2. The VS880 is quieter than a PC. It's got a tiny fan, but nothing like the noise generated by a PC (you really have to put the PC into another room if you're using a super-sensitive mic).

3. My VS880 has NEVER crashed on me in almost two years. My PC crashes/hangs on a regular basis.

4. You have physical mixing sliders on the VS. Ever try mixing from a computer keyboard ~ it ain't happenin'!

Bottom line: for the most bang for your buck, buy a VS880. that way you can implement all of your existing equipment, and build from there...you can always add Cubase/Cakewalk/ProTools, etc. later....

Buy anything by Denon, Kenwood, or Harmon Kardon. Fuck the Japs and their Sony boxes-cdracks-mp3players. The wires inside are all set to explode at a specific timea. i'TS LINear. The shitsus are all trained to chew threough the plaxtic and will break teeth shockingly. Harmon Kardon is American like baked beans and spiro agnew and craps. Not that it's a good thing.

Herm....if you're determined to spend the money I'd probably go with a McIntosh or Carver integrated amp or seperate power & pre amps, Nachamichi CD Player and the better grade of Infinity, Polk Audio or Klipsch speakers. Don't know what other components you want but this would be a good start. A new Sony rack would also be a choice I'd at least give a listen to. You'd be saving a ton of money. The main thing is to let your ears decide for you, not a bunch of advertising hype. How it sounds is ultimatley all that really matters anyway. Happy Shopping!

MC

Hermit- Ray Brown the bass player, may have played with Miles, but never with Becker or Fagen. On the other hand, Tom Barney the bass player, played with both. You left him off your list.

Believe it or not, I saw Hiram Bullock last night at the China Club in NYC. He looks like he's about to fall over and die. The poor guy must be around 400 pounds now.

Just remembered something...

Can anyone suggest some really good home stereo equiptment that isn't too ridiculously priced? I guess $5,000 would the about highest I would want to go. I've had nothing but Sony rack systems for the past 11 years, and, although they aren't all that bad, I feel it's time to graduate to something better.

Later,

Herm

Dr Mu: That explains why I couldn't find anything about Hiram; I was looking strictly at recordings under Miles' name. I would say that working in his concert band qualifies him as a Miles sideman. I wouldn't say that working on a Gil Evans album does, though. And as far as Corea goes, since it was his album, and they produced it, they were probably more his sidemen than he was theirs. I agree that there is a connection, I just wouldn't classify it as sideman work.

Later,

Herm

Picture of the rack I made reference to in my previous post:

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6974/Rack.jpg

Thought I had it in there but the HTML monster must have eaten it!

MC again

JWMalibu and anyone else familiar with Roland's VS series of digital recorders:

I'd like to get into digital recording over the next couple of months. Here is what I have and I'm not sure which way to proceed to get the best bang for the buck. I've got an 8 track Fostex 1/4" reel to reel and a 16 channel Studiomaster board that's very clean. I'm also moving this computer (Pentium 200, 4.3Gig HD, 80 megs RAM, NIC for our home network) to the music room which is upstairs. I don't know whether to supplement my current mixer and synths, guitars, bass and drum machine with the computer and some type of interface or go with the Roland 840EX, 880EX or 1680. I see that neither the 840 or the 880 have XLR inputs so I'm not sure about how the best way to record vocals or mic guitar amps. The synths, bass and drum machine will be run direct. The 1680 has two XLR inputs but is straining the budget. I see that the 840 uses 250 meg Zip disks and that the 880 and 1680 have the 2.1 Gig Hard Drives built in. Given what I have to work with now and that my budget really needs to stay under $2,000 I'd like to know what any of you think will be my best value for the dollar. I should also mention I've got a decent rack full of what I'll need as far as signal processing goes so built in effects on any of the units isn't a major concern. For the curious, I only use the power amp section of the McIntosh along with the preamp in the Studiomaster board to power two JBL 4311 monitors. Anyone with any thoughts on my situation PLEASE respond. I need all the input I can get before I lay out the bucks.

Thanks,
MC

We got trouble right here in Guestbook land
Which starts with H and ends with A
and stands for intolerance

Soc: Hiram Bullock played on Gil Evans' "The Honey Man" album wil Bill Evans and Miles Davis. He also played in concert with Miles while with Marcus Miller's band about the time of Tutu and Amandla.

As Oleander was hinting Donald and Walter produced and album for Chick Corea and Woody Herman circa 1978.

F#: Well, Sinbad O'Connor and I recently shaved our eyebrows in a pact involving abstinence from photos. When one tries to give the people what they want, you might just give them what they need. The yin-yang between elitism and populism. Two Against (their) Nature: John Adams was from a lower class background and became an elitist; Jefferson was from a priviledged background and was a proponent (and lover) of the common folk...and he doesn't know the territory...Still love Marian the librarian - and then to discover later those nimble hand gestures by the great Robert Preston were not a result of simply being a ham...

Edd: Thanks. "Warped..." is out of print, but clearly Walter had a lasting influence as their sound on that song is far different from the early 80s recordings (BW - before Walter). BTW, my tag is the "other" white meat.

Hey Everyone,

Now, I am in no way suggesting that this is a definative list, but I will say that after some investigating, these are the only sidemen that I could find that shared both Miles Davis and Don and Walt as bosses:

Jerome Richardson
Wayne Shorter
Ray Brown
Bernard Purdie
Chuck Findley
Joe Sample
Marcus Miller

But that's it. Hiram Bullock and John Beasley never recorded with Miles.
Some of you had mentioned Keith Jarrett, Sonny Rollins, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. I know they all recorded with Miles, but when were they ever with Steely Dan? Have I missed something?

oleander: There's always a chair waiting for you.

Later,

Herm

JollyR: don't forget to floss

Clas: cue up My Favorite Things and hit on an Oral Surgeon [who will prescribe oxycodone if you can improvise symptomology].

Oleander: the first step is to admit you are powerless over SD

MidniteC: I wish- have 2 kidz in college [and a lot of tape hiss]

Altamira: didn't take your post to be AA bashing nor did i hear you pass judgement... you must have pushed some buttons. All the things you said are true- in context. w/r/t passing judgement: this isn't supposed to happen at an AA meeting. 'tearing down fragile egos' is the antithesis of The Program which advocates the arrival of "non-judgement" day [sure, i say in jest, but jest so]. Read Infinite Jest! a splendid recommendation from O. The range of AA success is, indeed, "hysterical conversion" you describe [but they stopped drinking and lived] across the spectrum to 'spiritually transformed and bonded to the brotherhood'. Is it a surrogate for "normal, loving relationships on the "outside" or does it obfuscate the distinction because it is both? confusing- but the answer is yes.
both. Your post is entirely valid, and IDs a blessing and a curse. But- judgemental, ego tearing AA meeting is an oxymoron.
Your acquaintence needs to try some different meetings.

JWMalibu: ya...music for the common folk [and the "think" method]

DrMu- can't see your eyebrows so the Dewey/Truman approach:
thing one) right! they had to turn him around to see that what he felt was not the lynch mob from 7 symphonies back when the Patrons took exception to a certain flatted 7th. Music certainly is for the common folk even though they will be as fickle as the aristocracy.
thing two)too cryptic. elabortion: opera may have begun as an excuse for spectacle but was greatly advanced as an art form. Alluding to Carmen was pointing out to Clas [who, even after 60mg codeine, already knows!] that, as Altamira picked up on, great efforts were [and still are] made to bring the art form to common folk. There will always be elitists who live to fortify barriers to distinguish themselves in self-agrandizing fashion. The comedic irony of "professor" Harold Hill: in an effort to RIP OFF the common folk, he accidentally brought them great music. perhaps i prevaricate but isn't it pretentious to purport that you can perceive what is pretentious?

pixilated,
F#

F# - Granted, much of the current classical music scene is pretty moribund, as orchestras put together programs of tried-and-true music to avoid scaring away their subscribers by playing anything new. Yet there are more adventuresome orchestras and smaller ensembles who do play of lot of new music and give great encouragement to composers. I'm especially fond of modern classical music and I hear a fair amount of it on the symphony broadcasts played on the local commercial classical station, which tends to be as unadventuresome as possible.

I read an article a while back about an orchestra in Florida that put on an all-Zappa program, involving both his classical compositions (which were quite experimental and enormously complex and difficult) and his orchestrations of popular songs he had written. Rock musicians joined the orchestra on some of the pieces, and the concert drew a capacity crowd and received favorable reviews.

JW Malibu - Yes, AA has saved many lives and is doing much good. However, that is true of other programs too, such as Rational Recovery, Women for Sobriety, and Moderation Management. Many of the people involved with these organizations did not find AA to be helpful and were relieved and grateful to find a program that better suits their needs and does help them. People are different and any program that is good for some people will not be good for everyone. It seems to me that those who do not find AA to be helpful are better off finding a program that does help them than to give up hope of recovering.

Clas - it actually means that 3 out of 4 dentists recommend Trident for their patients who chew gum...............................................................................................................................................

No, I don't got it, you prick. You Swedish asshole, suck me off, faggot. How do you say, "suck me," in Swedish? I want you to tell me, so I can say it to your wife next time I see her..........................I'll do as many dots as I want, you see, you Swiss cocksucker? What do you do, sit around and eat Swiss cheese all day, and make watches?...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Will someone help me? I've got a twisted up meat biscuit in my thing-holey, and i'ts all red and stinky now. I've stuck a peanutbutter knife in there and i'ts all psussy/nasty and it hurts. Its red and nasty and I'm smaking it with a frozen beef patty, smak, smak, smak. It just keeps getting redder and redder all the time. Did you call the paramedics, Martha? L A Cigar, Too Tragical. Sit on a potato pan, otis. And Dutch Schultz said some pretty fucked up stuff on his death bed, was it aliens speaking through him, was he already dead? Oh, hey, yeah there it is
+2 whoops, I just dropped a piece of fudge on the linoleum. A piece of p oop fudge for my pet pussy cat. Eat it you asshole cat. Eat it yuou negra cat. I'ts a black cat, his name is paramecium. Ow, stop spanking me, paramecium. OH, here's a postcard from 12 Calle Doce, Tangiers, Morrocco. Is Paul still alive? You know he poisoned Jane, the bastard. And Blackbeard burned those smoldering flaames for a reason: He was courting the loas of the southern seas. Aw, shit, I just farted and it sprayed out on the floor. Did you get it yet? Hell, bring it over here and quickly. I could use some pickmeup. F#A# Infinity. YYY. I extracted the modem from the ISA slot asnd SLAMed it on the pavement, oh, shit I forgot to get tickts. Hope its not sold out. Get out of here, you asshole cat. Billy, I AM Dutch. It goes way back, but it's there. Will you come to MY deathbed, and use some of your Gysin cutups on my last words/? Damn, it stinks in here.

Zorro - three dots... not five or two or seven, got it?

Who is Michael Mac Douglas?

Studies show that 9 out of 10 people who view this Guestbook find it to be an utter waste of time.

Where is Catherine Zeta-Jones........oh, she's with Micheal Douglas.

Z

re: Mu, M.D.

I believe "Hands On The Wheel" was from the "Warped By Success" CD from sometime in the mid-90's...

JWMalibu - hey, what do you mean, one out of ten makes if they're AA-members?

Then I should feel safer outside that organisation?

Do we have a dentist out here somewhere? I'm runnung out of chodeine.

RubyBaby - no, you're not.

Bubbui do baba di bo, where's the nearest meeting sweethearts?

"It's estimated that 9 out of 10 alcoholics/addicts die as the end result of drinking/using; it's a small minority that make it into recovery and stay sober."

Oh man, 1 out of 10?

Edd / China Crisis experts: There's a great song called Hands on the Wheel for the Best of/Compilations...It certainly rings heavily of Becker with a serious horn chart, but I don't remember it from Flaunt the Imperfection or Diary of a Hollow Horse...an outtake? or recorded for Best of ?

Ole, Lars: Jeez, just table scraps left:
Hiram Bullock
Keith Jarrett - now I'm not sure...going to sleep now

Ole, Lars: Jeez, just table scraps left:
Hiram Bullock
John Beasley

reaches:
Keith Garrett - Gaucho credit
Sonny Rollins - album on the Nightfly cover
Miles collaborator Charlie Parker - Parker's Band
Joe Zawinul - played with Peter Erskine in Weather Report

Can't think of any link for Stan Getz, Marcus Miller, George Benson, and Larry Coryell but could be older contemp. jazz scurvy brothers.

Yes, the revamped Sign in Stranger is magnificent on AiA...that horn break is sooooootasty and unexpected. Smoother than the original with a much less repetitive sound...

Altamira ~ You're right, the program doesn't work for MOST drunks/addicts. It's estimated that 9 out of 10 alcoholics/addicts die as the end result of drinking/using; it's a small minority that make it into recovery and stay sober. AA has saved innumerable lives ~ 'nuff said.

Midnite ~ Feel free to shoot any Roland VS questions my way, I'm a die-hard fanatic! I was watching the SNL retro tonight, and they showed the skit w/Gilda as "Candy Stripe" in the recording studio, with Bill Murray as the record promo-man...ROLF! "Go!"

Edd ~ "Chris Gaines" is tryin' too hard to look like Chris Cornell, safe bet that the album/soundtrack will sound jes' like him too! Better keep that cowboy hat handy, son....

F#Maj9 ~ "We've got trouble...right here in River City!"

Out Swinging - I started to read that article at the library many years ago and have wondered about finding it again ever since. I'll have to look into it and see what I can find.

Bill W. - Those were not idiotic statements; they were based on my own personal experience and the experience, and research, of a number of people. I did not say that AA was bad for everyone; certainly it is valuable for some people. But it is not the best approach for everyone who has trouble controlling their drinking.

I know that AA meetings differ from one another; I found some that were quite gentle. But many of them are harsh and hurtful toward their members. I'm glad that the ones you went to have been helpful, but many are not, and the damage they inflict on hurting and vulnerable people can last for years. Once again, I did not mean to issue a blanket condemnation of the group, it's just that its methods do not work for everyone. Also, the group's general philosophy is not something that everyone finds meaningful and useful, and it is good that there alternatives - there is something for everyone, for we are all different. Anyway, I probably wrote more harshly than I intended to, and I'm sorry if I insulted you. I mostly wanted to point out that AA is not a one-size-fits-all program and that there are alternatives.

Fezo - Ooh, yes, Andrew Lloyd Weber, bleahh! However, as we consider good musicals, we can think about George Gershwin, whose birthday this is (mine too, I've always been delighted to share a birthday with such a wonderful musician).

Regarding AA, I did come across as harsher than I intended. I know the group helps some people, but they can tear down fragile egos and encourage reliance on a sometimes judgmental group. This can be good for some folks and bad for others; I know a number of folks who have been hurt by AA. I truly did not mean to imply that the group does not help people, since a number of people certainly have benefited from it.

Clas - There are operas about working-class people, for example, I Pagliacci (sp? my Italian's lousy), Cavilieria Rusticana, Carmen, La Boheme, and Porgy and Bess. Back in the days before opera became so horribly overpriced, it was quite popular among the working classes. You do have a point about opera being for the well-to-do these days; I wish there were some way that the ticket prices could be lowered so that more people could enjoy it (like me!), but the productions are so expensive that there doesn't appear to be any way to accomplish that.

The Stranger - Congratulations on the job! I hope it goes well for you.

WannaAussiebe - Yes, I realized I spelled it wrong right after I sent it, but I figured the mistake was so obvious that there was no point in correcting it.

Lars--Now I know the people who really know something about music will be all over this one, but let me start out: Victor Feldman, Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea ("Chick, Donald, Walter, and Woodrow"), Joe Sample, and Bernard Purdie.

Alta--Highly recommend "Infinite Jest" and talking to some people in recovery.

Bill w--Well put.

Herm--So if every night is ladies' night in the cave, save a place at the bar for me.

L'Etranger--You mean "Kind of an Icon"? I think so. Tell me about Ernie Higgins. I detect another keyboard fiend.

jOkEr....rained all day and supposed to rain tomorrow too but they're saying lows in the 30's by this weekend!

Watched and recorded all of SNL's 25th anniversary show last night....great memories! Also, on Saturday, VH1 had four hours of the best music and musical parodies from the 25 years of SNL and there were some classic spots. Wish I had taped all of that too but I didn't. Maybe they'll rerun it soon....it's a shame the boys never did SNL as musical guests....it seems that almost everyone else in popular music has at one time or another.

I have some questions for those of you who use Roland's VS-840, VS-880 and VS-1680 but I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get into them....have a good day and a better night!

MC

that would be in Rolling Stone, which I neglected to mention in my previous post...sorry as all hell...anyway, is it online anywhere?

Is the Steely Dan article in the August, 15th 1974 availible anywhere online?

dan and opera???? Why not jazztrivia instead? The man who ate sidemen almost like Dan - Miles Davis - shares ,on record, (at least) 12 players with dan (and solos).Who?

Altamira, I don't know what planet you're coming or what you take to make such an idiotic statement like you did about AA. It leaves me wondering where your head is sometimes.

AA has helped many I know, including myself gain self esteem to get back on our feet again, allowed us to work and hold our jobs and lead normal lives with their families. So please get off your high horse about AA.

Addiction is hard, harder than hell to combat. Until an addict decides that the monkey on their back is more powerful than they are, they will remain powerless over it until they become responsible for their actions. Addicts DO have low self esteem which is why they abuse themselves by drinking or taking drugs in the first place. Addicts often feel alone in their fight and if it means getting support from others like them or a higher power in order to gain the inner strength to fight it, then so be it. If it works and will stop one from destroying themselves and their loved ones, what's the problem? I've heard many times, if you don't like one AA group, go to another, they're all different.

What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another, and if you're with a group that will support one another and help each other out in a time of need and weakness, you tell me what's wrong with that? I don't know where or if you went to AA, but where I went, we were responsible for our own actions. I have a very high self esteem and I thank God and AA for helping me gain the power and knowledge to recognize my weaknesses.

Believe what you want, but don't pass judgement on an organization that has helped thousands of alcoholics stay sober.

Stereo Review

Saw only about 15 min of SNL 25; but Elvis Costello abruptly stopping the obligatory rendition of a single his record company pushed and launching into the snappy and acerbic Radio Radio had to be THE highlight...

F#: ...and it's a good thing that Ludwig was unable to hear the thunderous response from the common people when his 9th was unveiled in a public concert...he felt and saw

All this talk about pretentiousness and pretentious anti-pretentiousness reminds me of the title emblazoned on Stero Review's send-up of Steely Dan's Gaucho circa early 1981: "Too Good for Common Folk?"

Talk about something that's overrated - after 20 years or so, happened to stumble upon hearing George Harrison's All Things Must Pass...talk about something living on reputation. Sloppy, marginal tunes, pointless jams, and poor production by Phil Ramone. Am I the only one that believes that a 911 call to George Martin was in order?...albeit What is Life is a real rouser amd If Not For You is cute. Although the lyrics are a bit shallow, the tunes on the underrated George Harrison (1978) and the more ambitions Vloud Nine are more interesting than ATMP...well at least it's not Gone Troppo.

Edd: Who? thanx for the advice, I'll be sure not to notice.....

Ruby: Congrats! Hope it's working out for you and da kid....at least it explains what you've been doing *wink* with your time.

ygk

This is starting to resemble a pile-on after a tackle. I'M the one who brought up how stupid an art form modern muscials are. Clas just agreed with me. And of course there is nice music in some of them. It's just that watching them is so strange. First someone's acting, then the same person is singing with chorus, dancing, instrumental accompaniment. Then the person is acting again. In opera, it's all singing and the suspension of belief stays on a steady keel.

I just want to be the first to say I'm sick and tired of "Chris Gaines", and the album won't even be released until tomorrow.

Argh...

Audrey: chameleon on a mirror?

Clas/F#m/D#: back in the 1600s they had no television but, in an effort to revive greek tragedy invented the soap opera. good clean fun for the myopic well-to-do wanting for spectacles...

non-specific Danizens: i used to think that classical music was classic for a reason and even if the reason was lost on me believed there had to be a good reason but eventually suspected that all the la-dee-da-dee-da-dee-da-dee-daaa somnambulations were indicative of patrons who would throw rotten fruit at Stravinsky and maybe even their gold teeth at Ludwig VB [circa symphony 2] for ruining their nice predictable easy listening lentando leisure and i see a connection.

synapse: The Music Man, act two, scene seven "come on now boys-
THINK"

but then, Carmen is kinda catchy, ya Clas?

F#

Clas: You should try my operas (Marriage of Figaro, etc)...in German...for the common folks and paid little attention to while I was alive. Besides Americans are all from working class backgrounds here if one looks back whether recently or long ago. Last time I channeled, it was Sweden who clung to the monarchy.

Hi All,

I believe the tenors name is Jose Cararas.

RubyBaby: Some men feel that way, yes. But not me. I love being around women, in fact, I prefer it to being around men. I can't imagine why any man would chose being with another man over a woman. I never felt like I was expected to engage in all that senseless macho posturing when I'm around women. With men, I feel like I'm being challenged about everything: work, love life, abilities, money, knowledge of sports trivia. It gets tiresome. Of course, not all men are like this. I have two very good friends that I can confide in and just be stupid with, and I never feel like I'm being judged. But in my experiences, it's rare, especially since I'm not a blue-collar regular joe that other men might be able to realte to. I'm in a completely different world sometimes, and I like that world to be populated with women.

anyone: Is there really an Aja "Behind The Music" on VH1, or was that a bogus post? If so, was it on, and/or, when will it be on again?

Later,

Herm

Clas: Okay - I see why you say pretentious. Those megalong instrumentals are over the top. I treat opera and Yes the same. I keep the great stuff and ignore the rest.
I love the some of those sappy musicals like Singing In The Rain. And what about South Pacific? (There Ain't Nothing Like A Dame!)
btw, am I one of those *dominant* women?

anyone: I believe all men at one time or more, would like to have a place of their own without the presence of a female. I think that's fine! Why can't they have *men's clubs* in America anymore? (oh, I'm not talking about gay men's clubs. They can be anywhere these days. Whole different thing...)

fezo: If I help bring out a smile or a chuckle, that's good enough for me! Like the song goes, "Make Someone Happy." (one day at a time, as they say in AA)

Too bad that tenor's name isn't Jose Conseco - then we'd all remember it!

YGK: I forgot to tell you - I'm officially in The Mothers Club now! Do you remember that?

rb

Clas: I can only assume you're baiting us again with your all inclusive dismissal of musicals. Granted, the modern Andrew Lloyd Webber variety bite a big one; his latest effort the most bizarre, the story of Jesus appearing in Louisianna, co-written with Jim Steinman of "Bat Out of Hell" fame.

BUT there are much better examples of the form, "Guys and Dolls" and "Of Thee I Sing" were both considered classics when they debuted over sixty years ago and still stand up today. Similarly, "West Side Story" sounds as fresh today as it did when it came out over forty years ago and is still considered very musically inventive.

Hey, if you want to throw yourself into listening hell, get the Bernstein produced operatic recording of "West Side Story", featuring the three tenor whose name I can't remember. Sounds like Jose Canseco but I don't think that is it.

Alt: I can't figure out why you want to so readily dismiss AA. While there are certain elements of their philosophy I don't necessarily agree with, I don't think it's fair to criticize their efforts to encourage a sense of some type of group self-esteem amongst their members. A lot of addicts reach that state because of a poor sense of individual self-esteem and it's only by gaining a sense of group, a sense that there are others out there who care and have been through similar experiences, that their individual self-esteem can be revived. It's not a matter of having to sacrifice one's individual self for some type of Scientology-like group think that AA advocates. I know they pulled a real good friend of mine out of the depth of multiple addictions, and he's two years clean and still the nut (but now a sober one) that I always knew.

the Stranger - oh man, I would not ever listen to an Opera. I would betray my roots, the workingclass. Never on my foot.

And musicals? That's shit. Tapdancing, Can-can, singing, acting, everything in one (1) box. Hate it.

David In The Fla Room - this is a mans world, okay? You own your wife, I own mine? The woman are on this earth to please us men.

Keep that in mind and your work at the mixingboard will be even better.

Clas F#m/D#

PS Got an email from my son today, he's spent the morningclasses analysing Be-Bop-sols with a microscope. He wasn't too happy.

PSPS Geena - Hope everything is good!

somebody turn off the water.....

Oleander,
Yeah, it's really me. Got in a no-cap rut so decided to make a change. I'm not wearing lingerie anymore either. Which reminds me, guy's in a locker room and his friend can't help noticing he's wearing panties. 'How long have you been wearing those?' he asks. Answer: 'Ever since my wife found a pair in the glove compartment.' Hey, you heard 'Kind of Blue,' by Miles Davis?

Clas,
listen to 'la boheme' and then see if you can still say opera is a terrible art form. and it definitely beats the modern musical, in which characters act awhile, then sing awhile, which of course suspends belief each time. look at the disgusting thing they did with 'les miserable' junking up beautiful story and not one memorable song. now that's real no-imitation shit.

Geena,
When I babysit, I teach the kid poker. So far it's cost me $18 million, but I'm gonna make a comeback.

St. Al,
Pull the plug? You're right. You have the power to do that. And you KNOW you have the power to do that. Now I see you are a supreme being. But are you a force for good or evil?

This board getting unusually feisty considering the silence of the Dans.

Things have gotten so fucking terrible around here I had to take a job, which I start tomorrow. Woe.

Clas, ..."throw out all dominant women from the site"..."boys music"...??????
What the Fuck are you talking about man?
You were just joking right?Tell me you were just having your cyber-fun for the day.
I'm trying to keep a clear head and get through this mixing/mastering thing... but you pulled me out of "Lurk-mode" with that one !
Analyze the chord changes, the Lyrics,the friggin' album covers ...but don't go there , PLEASE.
David

Unmistakable sign of the end times
She scratched this message in my back
Audrey
Audrey in chameleon change

Green blur flying
To a blue shift rising
Rising up my spine to my neck
To where a red dust covers the black street
This is where we meet
Audrey

Unbound and undressed I must confess
That I had the same dream too
Audrey what's gotten into you?

Dragon smoke
(Only the best for my...)
Snake show
(I might have guessed it was...)
Audrey all along

Clas, F#m/D#:
You don't understand anything, but you feel better than anyone else because of what?

Altamira - Yes I KNOW that. But in that songbook it says "...my swell brook". And I KNOW that "you've" been talking about that before. We've been talking about everything here before, except for one thing;

StAl; can't we throw out all dominant woman from this excellent site? Isn't rock/jazz/pop-music boys music?

YGK - pompös, guess what that means in Swedish? Try.

Confucius - yeah, maybe I do, maybe I don't. What do you relly know? Not much.

C, F#m/D#

PS/ Opera IS a terrible "artform". Maybe it worked back in 1763, but now, now are those operaconcerts/houses just a place for the upperclass. They don't understand anything, but they feel better than anyone else because they are watching an OPERA. Barf.

Give me a machine gun.

When Black Friday comes I'll fly down to Muswellbrook

...a town, suburb, really, with no 'z's"...I have friends from there...they call it ''the 'brook''

Confucius - Believe me, you really DON'T want to get me started on this. I'll limit my comments to the following: Alcolholics Anonymous doesn't have any better track record for encouraging people to stop drinking than any other method, including people who simply decide to stop drinking on their own and follow through on their decision. The disease model of alcoholism is not accepted by everyone. The methods espoused by AA, such as the idea that a person is powerless over their drinking and need to give control over their lives to some sort of higher authority, can be damaging to people who already have self-esteem problems and don't take so well to having their fragile egos torn down so dependence on a group can be substituted for dependence on one's self. Support groups that bolster a person's self esteem rather than damaging it, and that help a person to be responsible for one's own actions rather than giving that control over to a group, can be quite helpful for some people.

Clas - the line is "fly down to Muzzwellbrook"; we've talked about that here before. And opera is not pretentious; it just tends to involve highly dramatic stories accompanied by appropriately dramatic music.

Hey Alphonso!

Thankyou for your support. Maybe I did show my ass. Sorry.

No I do not drag my wife around the house by her hair! Fishing

and playing ball make me a caveman or something? My wife is with

me as I am with her when she plays. Our son loves to fish. So

give me a break on the barbarian shit. Now you have forced me to

post again. Hey maybe this could turn into something? Bye Y'all

LIPA? Liverpool Institute for the Performing Arts.

McCartney is/was a major benefactor, but other large endowments have been withdrawn and he appears to have reached the limits of his generosity.

Ancient Chinese proverb -

He who make jokee about AA probably need meeting himself...

I've spent the past few days experimenting with various neurological drugs in an attempt to discover my "switching" tendencies, whereas I appear reasonably 'normal' to most folks at home and on the street, and then suddenly switch to a raving lunatic, spewing forth curses of Nordic origin....there seems to be a few associated nerves that, when stimulated, trigger an overload in emotional display, whoever irrational or correct they may be. I'm under 'test' mode now, so I don't know if.....

"Fucking Clas, you idiot - you can't even spell pompous until someone corrects you, and your pompousity is SOOOOOOOO unfounded, you fucking moron, whereas you don't even know which schools to send your somewhat talented little boy. I bet someone could sell you a piano with 87 keys, and you wouldn't know the differnce, you pug of a human, pissing fool, you"

....I will go in and out of any ramblings while I post here on a quiet Sunday morning in New York City.

ygk

Jesus, he don't have to fill me in.

So instead; "Edd, can you fill me in bla bla bla..."

Thought for the Day:

"Don't empower the lack of being."

Edd: Can you fill us in on that music school Paul McCartney founded?

"Hoops--welcome, but there is already a Hoops! who is one of the Venerable Troika of Dandom. Maybe there'd be less confusion if you had another nick."

Let's see if you have the guts to ignore that bullshit. Keep your handle man. That woman wants control. Just ignore her.

Hell, you gyus know about me, but at 4:30Am I have my Jamiacan roommate (one of the best friends) knowing 'My Old School' note for note

lord he lves that song

this is it for me, thank you for your patience, no more posts...peace

RubyBaby - pretentious is the word, pompous, is that an English word too? Sorry, that's what I mean. Which leads me to another dear of friend -

JW Malibu - did you hear about the AA-group you have there in Malibu? 67 actors and 1 (one) drivers license.

Yeah! Thanks, the Truth was out there!

I bought that green book you have yesterday. And yes, no 7 in the F#-chord, wrong of me, that would sound shit. Did you read the Black Friday lyrics in that book? Listen to what it says:

"I fly down to my swell brook".

Maybe that's the right line?

And this Yes-thing, their music is pretentious, like opera, uhhh.

But it was a long time ago I listened to them, early seventies I think (while they still could stand up while playing), I WAS a real fan so don't kill me. Are they still alive doing their old routin? Oh gosh. with castratosinging too. Spare me.

Geena, hi. Hope everything is fine. Me, in good mood? Well I don't know about that.

I have a very steady temper. Always pissed.

I partied with Donny last night and he said he'd check out this site if I posted so I am.

Hi Don! Call me, ok? Is this really the best way to contact you or was Walter fibbing?

Giving the Stained Dress to Mother,

Rosetta

Question: What do you call a worm on Viagra?
Answer : A nail.

Jeez, am I the only sober one here? I'll drive home.

ygk--I'm holding you to that drinkie when I come up next.

fezo--now listen my boy, do we have to have a whole nother DanFest a la #2 to remind you what wiggle means? Say, you can send me deepfezothoughts anytime.

Stranger--Are you OK? Capitals? I'll let you know if there's any news, or if I have any epiphanies of alphabetization.

Ruby--Our periods must be in synch. That must have been part of why I was lurking....

steveV--hell, I WISH I could join you!

Mu--I just live your typos.

Geena--Just had to show her California, didya? How you gonna keep her down on the farm.... Thinking a lot of you, girlfriend. Say, if a phone is ringing in the desert and no one is there to hear it....

Hoops--welcome, but there is already a Hoops! who is one of the Venerable Troika of Dandom. Maybe there'd be less confusion if you had another nick.

Walleye--come on, if you're not part of the problem you're part of the solution.

Nada--I got it.

Alta--Actually, things are NOT going well downstate. They virtually just put up a CLOSED sign east of 95. The Tar River didn't even crest until a couple of days ago. The damage is enormous, and it'll be another several days before anybody really knows how bad it really is. We sent a couple of nurses down to help, as have other groups at this end of the state, which didn't even get a drop of rain. (Compared to the nurses, doctors are pretty useless) Agriculture is about wiped out; the only possible upside is that some of those horrendous hog factories have been washed out and may not be replaced.

Re: Aja docu--did anyone see it on Canadian TV? And did anyone go to the Euro site mentioned in the Digest for tape/ DVD of it? I tried but couldn't get it to let me order one. If anyone can get it, get me one and I'll pay you back. Please.

Listened to AiA for the first time in a long time on a car trip today. LOVE how they did SIS. That great surprise horn break. Among other things.

in a fitting piece of Dan-like irony, the exiled team from flooded Greenville came from 20 pts down to defeat a team called the Hurricanes...now I'll get drunk

PS Wally, I don't know about the rest of the GB community, but I only come here when I am drunk.

I think we all know DF & WB don't give a shit who we are or what we think - that's why we talk to each other - and it's part of why we like Don and Walt in the first place!!!

Bartender, I'll have another Black Cow, please

Q,"burp........"

Wow Nada, you were definately over my head on that one !!

Actually,I like the ant thing- when I was young and free to expand my mind, I used to see Yes and close my eyes and imagine myself an ant within a giant colony, I think I recall.

Of course your free to express yourself with regard to the Dan- that's why we're all here- even egomaniacs like myself.

El Supremo - that MCA gold disc is pretty common and somewhat on the bright side and overly hot in presentation, but does have a few unique and worthy renderings on it.

I have to say IMHO the latest remaster series are very worthwhile having now really had time tofully absorb them, especially -in order- Countdown(bongos brought up front,etc. makes this mix the best I've yet heard), CBAT( similar qualities), Katy(mild improvements), Pretzel(does anyone detect anything worthwhile on this remix??- other than the expanded liner notes)

Now they just need to release the newly remastered series on vinyl and have DCC produce it !!!!! (hint,hint Don & Walt)

I'm reinvigorating my call for the Dan to use the DTS system for their upcoming tour(?)....... give us (near) studio quality sound guys !!!!!!!!

takin' my Big Black Cow and gettin' outa here.....

Q

Hello DanFanDom!!

Well, I thought I would tell you I visited a music store here and found "A Decade of Steely Dan" pressed on an MCA label in 24-K gold CD format. Haven't seen this one before, Q.

Anyway, my choices for new players for Walt and Don would be Steve Cole, Saxaphone----among others.

Additionally, Gil Parris on the guitar. He has a George Benson type of style but is very versatile. You might want to check out his CD, "It's A Lie" which is exceptional.

Then, there is always Joe Sample, Cornelius Bumpus, Aurie Ambrose, et. al for the other positions.

So, I see some of the oldsters are coming back and posting, and I hope you are having one fine one, as I drink another beer.

Cheers!

ES

P.S.: JustKatyDanFan, my wife, I love and miss you greatly darlin----hugs and kisses, HSRD.

Thanks Hutch, I was going to post that phone number later, but I see you got to it first. I watched the same thing last night, amazing, huh?

Off to the airport with child in tow....see ya'll in a week!

YGK .. Yes is largely from the UK. You must be gettting them confused with Rush. Another ridiculously pretentious band, but I dig both of 'em anyway.

But none of them hold a candle to King Crimson.

StAl

Nada: ....but you see, Yes and No ARE opposites in many ways, besides the obvious. For example:

For one, No is a local NYC punk band, playing thrash hardcore around the seedier clubs.
Their lead singer "Spit" was arrested for disorderly conduct, trying to enter a bar at 4:30 am (after closing time). Apparently, he wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

Yes is largely fron Canada (right?) playing stadiums and large clubs. And their nightlife is a bit calmer, eh?

ygk

I just found this site today, and I think it's awesome! I may be behind in the news, but is there any info regarding the new album that's supposed to come out this year? If so, please let me know; it would be very much appreciated. Thanx.

The Mojave Desert phone booth is not just a legend. It's for real all right. There was a story on NBC News last night about it. Most isolated phone booth and all that.
The # is 760-733-9969
Found this web site by typing "desert phone booth" in Dogpile.
www.cardhouse.com/g/moj/

Hutch

Now that you've had your fun throwing stones at me I invite you to read my orginal post again. I made up the fictitious band, "No" to sum up my feelings about SD. I never said that "Yes" and "No" were SIMILAR. I said that the story of "No" was FAMILIAR--as in FAMILIAR to those of you who are also familiar with Steely Dan.

And Q, who says that I can't express my feelings about Steely Dan in any manner I choose? I like Yes. I've seen them 3 times. If I was talking about Yes why would I say they cancelled a tour and were holed up in Manhattan? Steely Dan cancelled a tour. Not Yes. I am writing in English aren't I?

And one more thing. If you're not standing on the shoulders of giants you're under their feet. Steely Dan is huge. I feel like a tiny ant with big headphones when I listen to their music. Sorry you didn't get it.

Giving Up Poetry,

Nada

Wally:

Word.

Clas ~ You're correct regarding the "Black Friday" chord F#m/D, but there's no 7th (at least on the original)...you'll see that the chord is properly notated in vocal section of the score (www.thekatbox.com/casellastudio/blackfri.htm), the top of which is Michael McDonald on the 5th (C#)~ not 7th. You are entirely right in noting that the guitar chord notation for that particular change is completely out to lunch, kinda' like the "e minor" notation on the intro to "Rikki..." ~ re: JacksonB - sorry, don't know the man, but we've crossed paths on more than one occasion out in the surf, but I don't see him out in the water much any more...On a final note, you should give Yes another listen, perhaps to "Close to the Edge" with an open mind ~ you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Herm ~ There was an article about the same time in the now defunct "Musician", where WB adressed his "sequenced" approach to 11TOW...it's pretty cool what one can create with today's latest and greatest toys ~ sometimes those sequenced demos end up being the real thing. Michal McDonald tells of how he sequenced "Sweet Freedom" to use as a guide track for a full horn/rhythm section, and couldn't recapture the certain funky groove he'd sequenced in the demo, so they ended up using the sequenced bed, with its signature synth-brass hooks. Monster hit for McDonald, and not a bad song to boot, IMHO!

Q ~ Thanks for setting me straight on my case of mistaken bungalows in the Florida area...used to spend summers with the granny in New Port Richie way back when. You have a great weekend as well...and yes, NO one can play a Rickie like the Squiremeister!

Geena ~ That phonebooth is a SoCal urban legend...in fact, we used to partake in certain mood enhancers and attempt to find it, usually ending up in Joshua Tree sitting one some huge rock waiting for the sun to rise...have fun in Sonoma, good time of year to go!

Dr. ~ Great analysis of the Yes/ABBA-Meatloaf connection! The ABBA/Weber is on the money, and I concur on the bombast that IS Jim Steinman, who in fact DID have an ill-fated solo album as you indicated. I enjoy producing other people just for the hell of it, and I'm working with this guy originally from New Jersey who ALSO has that pernicious habit of inserting tempo changes (not time signature, but tempo) about 6 million times in every song! Now Zappa could get away with because his music was just so interesting, but Steinman (the "Boss" is another guilty party) does it for dramatic effect, and it just comes out sounding melodramatic/schmaltzy and an almost-Weberesque kinda' way ~ It ends up sounding like "Rocky Horror...", and you need the theatrics (or video imagery) and/or Meatloafs to complete the picture! I thank my lucky stars for Cubase ~ makes those tempo changes are a snap...

Have a great weekend!

Dr. Mu - I'm relieved to learn that things are going well in North Carolina; that was one horrendous storm they suffered through.

Despite his many shortcomings, I think that Meatloaf was appropriate for his role in Rocky Horror Picture Show, which was where I first encountered him. I didn't know he was supposed to sing Total Eclipse of the Heart - that certainly explains the overblown nature of the song.

So Wally, if you find this whole venture so pointless, why did you bother to post? Looks like you wasted your keystrokes.

Hey big WALLY...

"Go fishing, play ball, hell get drunk..."

Damn, man! Do you drag your woman around the house by her hair also?

It always cracks me up to see someone new showing their ass on the GB. I can dig Wally's position, but for chrissakes this forum is more than Steely Dan talk. Thank god or I'd have pulled the plug on this thing years ago.

Geena...

About that phone booth. I too have heard of this thing. Chalked it up to urban folklore. Would love to know what the number is. Next time I'm in the Mohave, I'll be sure to answer.

Re: Susan Tedeshci. Thumbs down on that one. Over-rated, oversung retread blues trying hard to sound like someone who's trying HARD to sing like Janis Joplin. Being backed by Stevie Ray's old band doesn't help one bit.

StAl

I to am a rabid Steely Dan fan however, I will not waste my time sifting through a bunch of trash talk that you people think is interesting. Are you trying to outdo one another? I'm a bigger fan than you? Just shut up and keep listening. He said this or that, who cares? If you think for a minute that walter becker or donald fagen give two shits who you are you're nuts!
I dig there music,got all the albums,I've seen them live etc...
But let's not become ridiculous with it O.K. Do something more constructive with your time, like teach your kid something new.
Go fishing, play ball, hell get drunk! But leave this crazy infatuation with these two dudes alone! Bye Y'all

place

bolus

Geena: Sorry to hear about your experience with FEMA. It's up to the governor of the state to initiate the process - sounds like Pataki (I've drawn a blank - or are you in Mass.?) dropped the ball. Anyway, thank goodness Jim Hunt along with other governors of the Southeast declared their states disaster areas BEFORE the storm hit...and started the paperwork with FEMA and contacted the White House. The floods are truly of biblical proportions...remember Bangladesh around '70?

I have family who reside in Greenville. Most escaped when (you'll love this) the East Carolina football team tried to leave town on buses (the airport is underwater). Jim Hunt called in the state trooper and engineers to clear a tortuous route of highways winding down to Columbia, SC. They had to pump out 4 ft of water and palce sand over the drowned roads. *This is essential as the patency of the roads is uncertain after being underwater for a prolonged period - the beds wash away, soften or dissolve - sinkholes will form paroxysmally as well*

Anyway, a caravan of refugees from an area without power, clean water, or food queued behind the football team as they all made a slow parade out of the sea of marsh and muck. By the time the Pirates had picked the bones of Lou Holtz' young men, they would have required Blackbeard's ship to return (if they had wanted to actually do that) to Greenville as the roads resubmerged beneath the wine dark sea.

Instead, the team stayed in South Carlina all week wandering like Moses in the desert I suppose (all things are relative). They are preparing, proabably at some high school field somewhere, to play the University of Miami in Raleigh this Saturday (the shiw must go on!) as a "guest" of NC State. Ironically, many refugees have camped out by the beach this week where running water and power are back on!

Clas: Truly a bizarro comparison between Yes, Abba, and Meatloaf. I suppose the music from the 3 artists could be viewed as overblown, but in so far different ways. I could see a likeness with ELP, early Genesis, King Crimson, even Jethro Tull. Yes - a group with a lead singer posessing a trumpet-like voice from the art-rock school. They played, but open-ended produced "songs" with long jams...I read once that most if not all (I doubt this is true for Bruford) unable to sight-read. Pop was the last thing on their minds.

Abba seems to have been led by 2 meticulous pop songwriters who fancied themselves as Andrew Lloyd Weber of the top 40. Their emphasis in the studio was on very clean and crafted *commercial* pop product.

Meatloaf was the alter ego and on again off-again voice for Jim Steinman. Steinman writes unbelievably over-melodramatic angst-ridden American twisted teen experience pop...like Grease with a BIG blous of estrogen and testosterone. With the over the top production - it's stuff that only works with the frenetic larger than life Texas-size talent that is Meatloaf. His unique brand of camp that works in a most amazing way...apart each is a shadow - anybody claim to have have Steinman's solo album? ...and doesn't Total Eclipse of the Heart (Bonnie Tyler) sound dated and silly without Meat, who was scheduled to belt that one out before a nervous breakdown.

Geena: Sorry to hear about your experience with FEMA. It's up to the governor of the state to initiate the process - sounds like Pataki (I've drawn a blank or are you in Mass.?) dropped the ball. Anyway, thank goodness Jim Hunt along with other governors of the southeast declared there states disaster areas BEFORE the storm hit...and started the paperwork with FEMA and contacted the White House. The floods are truly of biblical proportions...remember Bangladesh around '70?

I have family who reside in Greenville. Most escaped when (you'll love this) the East Carolina football team tried to leave town on buses (the airport is underwater). Jim Hunt called in the state trooper and engineers to clear a tortuous route of highways winding down to Columbia, SC. They had to pump out 4 ft of water and sand over the drowned roads. *This is essential as the patency of the roads is uncertain after being underwater for a prolonged period - the beds wash away, soften or dissolve - sinkholes will form paroxysmally as well*

Anyway, a caravan of refugees from an area withoout power, clean water, or food queued behind the football team as they mad a slow parade out of the sea of marsh and muck. By the time the Pirates had picked the bones of Lou Holtz' young men, they would have required Blackbeard's ship to return (if they had wanted ti actually do that) to Greenville as the roads resubmerged beneath the wine dark sea.

Instead, the team stayed in South Carlina all week wandering like Moses in the desert I suppose (all things are relative). They are preparing, oribably at some high school field somewhere, to play the University of Miami in Raleigh this Saturday (the shiw must go on!) as a "guest" of NC State. Ironically, many refugees have camped out by the beach where running water and power are back on!

Clas: Truly a bizarro comparison between Yes, Abba, and Meatloaf. I suppose the music from the 3 artists could be viewed as overblown, but in so far different ways. I could see a likeness with ELP, early Genesis, King Crimson, even Jethro Tull. Yes a group with a lead singer with a trumpet-like voice from the art precise, but open structured production with long jams...I read once that most if not all (I doubt this is true for Bruford) unable to sight-read. Opo is the last thing on their minds.

Abba seems to have been led by 2 meticulous pop songwriters who fancied themselves as Andrew Lloyd Weber of the toop 40. Thier emphasis in the studio was on very clean pop product.

Meatloaf was the alter ego and on again off-again voice for Jim Steinman. Steinman writes unbelievably over-melodramatic angst-ridden American twisted teen experience pop...like Greas with a BIG blous of estrogen and testosterone. With the over the top production - it's stuff that only works with the frenetic larger than life Texas-size talent that is Meatloaf. His unique brand of camp that works in a most amazing way...apart each is ablsolutely nothing - anybody claim to have have Steinman's solo album? ...and doesn't Total Eclipse of the Heart (Bonnie Tyler) sound dated and silly without Meat, who was scheduled to belt this one out before a nervous breakdown.

Fezo - I have unearthed Dark Side from its lair (it was in a tape case under a piece of furniture; I guess I hadn't listened to it in a while) and am now listening to it - what a marvelous recording! I love those voices that talk and laugh under the music. That bootleg recording sounds fascinating; like the SD bootlegs, it provides an enlightening glimpse into the creative process that helps the listener to appreciate the final product even more. And many thanks to those who have mentioned their favorite PF recordings; you've given me some good hints for what to buy when I have some more money.

I have read that "Reeling in the Years" is on the soundtrack of Kevin Costner's new baseball film, which is supposed to be a real howler. I wish an SD tune would be used in a movie that is actually worthy of its presence!

Anyone heard of the phone booth located smack in the middle of the Mohave desert? I understand it never stops ringing, I'd like to go there just to see who calls.

Rubybaby: I only know Susan Lucci in the media sense. Embarrased to say, but i finally got hooked on soap operas, mainly hers. So, sorry I can't get you any of her clothing, but i'll be more than happy to write her a letter at Television City and put in your request.

Mu: I heard this evening on national news that all crops were wiped out in the floods. Glad to hear that Ole was not near any harm, but feeling bad for those who were. My turkey is in the freezer, has been for about a month. They're cheaper in the summer 'cuz it's too hot to cook them. If FEMA was as helpful as they were last year when we experienced the monsoons of June and our own rivers overfloweth, then these folks will be waiting for a while. I hope this is not the case.

TheStranger: I don't worry about her, she's pretty feisty. I just know that she's not dating anyone until she's 40! Wanna babysit sometime?

Nada: I'm not a fan of Yes, but I've hung out with a lot of performers. No biggie, they put their pants on the same way anyone else does. Not a flame, just a statement.

Clas: good to see you're in a good mood!

Leaving for California (Sonoma) tomorrow for a few days....take care everyone and behave while I'm gone.....

I am rather puzzled by Fagen's mispronunciation of the word "sleight" on Mr. Sam (for those who haven't heard the song, he pronounces it "slate"). Fagen has mispronounced French words on many occasions, but one would expect him to be able to pronounce English words, and you would think that he would have heard the phrase "sleight of hand" before. Is he mispronouncing it for effect, or what?

A while back, during my lurking vacation, someone mentioned listening to, and enjoying, the pre-Dan recordings. I enjoy them too; I'm listening to the Android Warehouse collection right now. They are interesting for historical purposes, since they provide early examples of musical ideas that D&W would use later. But I also find them enjoyable on their own merits; I like the more intimate sound, sort of like what I hear on those nefarious bootleg versions of songs. I also enjoy Fagen's singing - apparently he hadn't yet found the style of singing he would use later and so he experimented with a variety of styles. He sounds rough, often missing pitches, but he does show some good musical instincts and a warm, emotional singing style. It's ironic, I guess; here's a group that is known for their elegant, polished sound, and yet I find myself listening to these rough, early versions more often than I do the final product these days.

Maybe it's because I've known the final product for over 20 years now, so I like to hear the rougher versions of the songs I know and the early songs that never made it to the final version. These bare-bones recordings do demonstrate the excellence of the writing and Fagen's vocal skills, which, to my ears at least, tend to get sort of buried in the final versions. Yes, I do love the smooth perfection of the final versions, but these early ones are like the sketches for a great painting.

Fezo - I'm glad to learn that Peaches is still doing well. I bought YGTWILYTI from the cut-out bin at the Rockville branch many years ago. I was intrigued to notice that the jacket had the hole punched in it before the plastic wrap was added - I had thought that a record was marked as a cut-out by the store, but it looks like this happens at the factory (damn, I just noticed that the cats tore up the plastic wrap - oh, well, you can't keep anything perfect in a home with cats in it).

Yo JW Malibu !
Just for the record and not to draw some other innocent further into this tempest in a teapot, I believe in your response to NADA's flame just now, you were under the impression that it was "David in the FloridaRoom" who is a good guy who lives about 3 hours south of me in Florida, to whom you thought NADA was firing at.
I go by the "FLAROOM" moniker which could clearly be confused between myself and David.

I am Quentin- "Q", and I'm the "egomaniac" referred to in the NADA flame in question about which you were just posting.

I have to say that with regard to your attitudes about how people's "message board" syndrome, you practically took the words out of my mouth ! Have a great weekend, Sir.

Ruby, great take on Yes - This will be my last post on them since this is the Dan board(I will likely uncontollably say something after having seen the shows though)

Now.... onward and downward as they say........

Clas, remember when I recently posted that you said something quite astute(Fagan as "character"), well...... you just said the most uninformed,illconcieved thing I have ever heard from someone who considers themsevles such an afficianado/Nordic musical genius regarding Yes. POMPOUS - and you LIVE on the Steely Dan board??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you compare them to Abba~!!!!!!!!!!!! and....Meatloaf?????
your not even close to relevant genre's (nor TALENT!!) parameters - by a long shot. And have you ever read and understood their lyrics; they are the antithesis of pompousness.

Oh and NADA, what is this about "Yes,... they have their own agenda" stuff???? - what good band doesn't !
Gee, I don't think Steely Dan "has their own agenda".........no,
not for one minute.

Thank,you very little,

Q
Now off to enjoy my family, hope your all doing the same - I know BigFan is !

Mitch: I think I saw Susan Tedeschi at Farm Aid a couple of weeks ago. But it was hot and I was hyperventilating at the prospect of seeing Deena Carter in person so my memory is kinda hazy.

Alt: Peaches will never die. Twenty years it was supposedly in bankruptcy and about to go under but last time I was down in Richmond the same store was still standing. Dark Side is great, sounds just as good the 154th time, as it did the first. I heard this amazing bootleg live version of it once . . . back in the 1970's, when bands were working on new product, they would tour alot to try different versions of the material (what a concept, if only Donald and Walter would take note) . . . anyway the boot was pre release of Dark Side with totally different takes on the songs. The one I still remember is "Time", it was even faster than the studio release, but without the lengthy percusion intro, and with Richard Wright on lead vocal.

I'd love to find a copy of that tape today. Who knows, maybe McNade will offer it for sale on EBay.

Ruby: I don't understand half of what you say in response to my posts but you still crack me up

Edd: You are correct, sir. Flaunt the Imperfection is now available as an English import from most CD e-venues. Last time I checked only the compliations, What Price Paradise and Wishful Thinking were available. CDUniverse and a couple of others offer FtI for < $15. I could not find "Diary of a Hollow Horse" (I'm really fond of the 8 tracks Walter produced here and had a surprisingly good sounding commercial tape) on CD, but did see an offer from an English vinyl e-store: "Vinyl Tap."

Hey All,

I was going through some of my old Jazziz magazines looking for an article about Pat Metheny. While looking through the contents page, I found that there was an interview with Walter about 11TOW. It's pretty interesting. He talks about how he decided to go with a 'do-it-yourself' approach to making the music, instead of, "...spending millions of dollars and thousands of hours trying to fly musicians in...It's stupid. This is what we spent the whole 70's doing. I'm not going to do that again." He was referring to, among other things, using computers and drum machines in favor of high priced talent to replicate it in the studio.

I checked, and there is no way to view the achives on line, but you can order back issues at the Jazziz website. The article is in the Feb. '95 issue, with Pat Metheny onm the cover.

If I don't post again today, hope you all have great weekends.

Later,

Herm

Zeke, I'm jelous! I'd be willing to pay twice that.

The last time I saw Yes was in '78. They came down from the ceiling in a spaceship doing StarTrooper. There was lazers, dry ice, mobile sound - the works.(It was the 70s - they had to!) After that, it was all music, which was more awesome than any special effects! I think they've continued to improve over the years. I love the way they move from rhythm to rhythm within a song, so smooth and yet so dynamic.

Out of all the people I know that are into Yes, so many of them are runners. What's up with that? And they all have a sense of humor that's "different" from the boring norm. No one can make me laugh like my Yes-fan friends. (except my Yes/SD friends.)

Clas: what's pompos? It's not in my svensk/english dictionary.
It looks suspiciously like pompous. As in pompous ass. Tell me it isn't so!

an actual Steely Dan post:

I saw an oil painting of Walter Becker for sale on ebay in the general music section. I forget what it's going for. Anyone else see it? I'm not crazy about it...

Then I saw a poster of WB and DF standing in a hallway. This one's great! I'm not a collector of such stuff, or I'd buy it.

rb

"Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. The award aims to recognize the contributions of people who have had a significant impact over the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll, according to the Hall's literature."

Why does Paul McCartney's solo work fit these criteria more than The Dan? If he were never in The Beatles, would he have made it in?

RubyBaby - yeah!

Geena - yeah!

JW malibu - cool bunch of grapes but I don't think the D#m7 is right. It don't sound right. I bet 1000 bucks that the right chord is a F#m7, the bass plays D#. Listen to the liverecord, it sounds like the band disagrees too.

If you know Jackson Browne I'll change my mind.

YES was not much of a cool band. Very pompöst. Like ABBA and Meatloaf. But I liked that song, ehhh, what the, well, "Roundabout". Cool bassgroove.

never knew about the yes fans here. Hey, I'm no cheapeaux, esp. when it comes to music. I've spent more money on bad music than I care to talk about. BUT, YES is charging a cool $60.00 for a gen adm ticket. Hey. I'm goin'.
I did catch the Stevie Winnwood show at HOB. That was a great show. I got in to the bar a little late, but it was great. If your in Nawlins' and want to see a show at HOB, go early and eat dinner on the "patio". Usually a home grown blues band playing while you eat, great warmup for any show there. Oh yeah, the Abita Purple Haze on tap is a must.
Where Y'at Doc? How's the garden?
Ole: Roger that. Cajun french is a bitch.
The Rockies were great. Good backdrop for good music. It's a cool thing when music suprises you in a positive way.

Nada ~ Why the flame...because I mentioned the fact that I've had the pleasure to hang out with Jon & Chris a couple of times? So fuckin' what...a LOT of people have, and I've got friends who are FAR more famous than Yes, and ya' know what ~ they're just *people* for the most part, that's all. If you interpreted my mention of it as "name dropping" to somehow validate my own "egomania" (one word/btw), you're so far off the mark it's funny...sorry, I don't need to go on a message board to do that, buddy. I'm a firm believer that actions and accomplishments speak far louder that words. Also, David was right on, your initial obtuse "Yes-slam" was dripping with sarcasm, and no amount of backpedalling is gonna' change that...

David ~ Agreed, they (Steve & Chris) insanely incredible musicians ~ it boggles the mind just to watch them play!

"Flaunt..." and other China Crisis titles are available at CDnow.

scarFs

Steve V: Damn, my China Crisis tapes have disappeared into thin air. Any idea how to get copies of the CDs? Are they on import at a venue somewhere?

"1000 rock experts" I thought the last two words were mutually exclusive. Isn't this their 3rd try? Clapton is a given. My preference would be to see Dan along with Earth Wind and Fire, the O'Jays, Richie Valens, and Bonnie Raitt accepted. Aerosmith??? how about letting their scars in...

NADA- read your own post - no derision in it , no undertone? give yourself a break.
And where's my egomania ? Atleast I have the guts to identify myself unlike weasels like yourself.

The Squire part was a reference to someone else who got the name wrong-no big deal- and I didn't say YOU..."so get it right fuckhead" !

You're an edgy type aren't you - get an ego , and some self esteem and maybe you'll settle down.

Oh and the rhyme thing? what's that- are you an aspiring rapper?
Atleast you can still quote Dan lines fairly effectively.

Peace baby,

Q

Rock n Roll Hall of Shame round 2:
http://www.livedaily.com:80/archive/1999/9909/wk4/Clapton,_Queen,_Steely_Da.html

About 1,000 voters will pick eight each. Nominees getting more than half the vote get in.

For u Dave Matthews fans - buy 1 get one free:
http://www.livedaily.com:80/archive/1999/9909/wk4/Dave_Matthews_Offers_Down.html

Altamira: the early Floyds; "See Emily play" and "Arnold Layne" are materpieces by Syd Barrett. I never cared much for them afterwards though "Careful with that axe, Eugene" is a great song title.

....I think D&W were much more into "No".....ask any one of their session guys........

Q- my friend, I read (in the 70's) that Don and Walt were never fans of Yes and really didn't care much for them.

Q,

You Schoolyard Superman! Smashin' the backboards, you're Jungle Jim, again.

BTW, I made no comments about Chris Squire so get it right, fuckhead.

U2, Malibu. I made no disparaging remarks about your personal pals, "Yes", so go find some other excuse to flaunt your ego mania.

Altamira: My favorite Pink Floyd album is "Animals" because I am one.

Nada

add me to the lis of psychos who've had dreams about the new album-----was listening to 'Cash Only Island' remixed with a very quadrophonic sounding guitar solo over it! IT SOUNDED FUCKING AWESOME!...but then i woke up........are we talking mind control or what!

re: China Crisis 'Flaunt lp' - One of Becker's best productions...still sounds fresh today!

re: Asian 'Dan fans- now that I live in Singapore are there any 'Dan fans who want to get together in Singyporey at the Century End??!!--Good King Richard? any chance you can fly up from Australia for a Guiness?

just a thought ( am I the only onw who doesn't have end of the millenium party plans yet!?)

Speaking of bands from the good old days, I read something about Pink Floyd a while ago - I have a tape of Dark Side of the Moon around here that I listen to now and then - any other Floyd fans or detractors out there? (posting police alert - yes, I've posted three times in one night, but I was on a lurking vacation for a while so I think I've earned the right.)

Maj (c) - It seems that you are one competent bass player; way to go!

I had a DREAM last week about trying to ask Joe Jackson why he played the Dan songs he played at Joe's in NYC a month ago.

In this DREAM, I wasn't at the show, it was happenening after the show, away from the venue, can't tell where though.

Jackson was being difficult, and making me jump through all sorts of "hoops" before providing any answers. At one point, I had to hold handfuls of broken glass, the small bits like from a shattered windshield (probably from the Whack photo shoot... those fucking bastards...).

In the end, I don't think I ever talked with Joe Jackson, he gave commands thru his *handlers*, and I did NOT learn the rationale for Joe Jackson's selections. Just the handful of glass.

SO if you care to hazard a guess or maybe you DID talk to Joe Jackson and he told you, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

CHINA CRISIS on Muzak....

Ya know, the arrangements in "Bigger Punch I'm Feeling" stood up well in a muzak version I heard Tues. morning at a diner in New Jersey.

Plugged in my bass at a music store today to try out some heavier bass amps. Banged out Chain Lightnin LOUD. I must be playing well enough now that the dude recognized it. Any MIDI's of Chain would be appreciated.

Thanks.

maj©

Apparently at least one Washington Post columnist is a Dan fan - Tony Kornheiser entitled his column about his 20-year anniversary at the Post "Reeling From the Years."

Yo, "NADA"- in lieu of civility - EAT SHIT -
your mind is obviously only capable of handling ant guano.

And you think you "get" Steely Dan ????????????? Doesn't reconcile pal.......go to the Metallica board for greater satisfaction.

PS it's Steve Howe- not Chris Howe- and Steve is not only the best Yes guitarist - he is one of the eminent guitarists of ALL time !....... ask WB & DF !!!!!!!!!

PPS Chris Squire is one of THE eminent bassists of ALL time too........got that "NADA" ?

Q
Happily a Big Fish in a small pond within a Giant rain forest

Hutch - So Peaches is still around? There was one around here about ten years ago; I thought the chain had folded.

Dr. Mu and Edd - Fagen's in good company. The only formal musical education George Gershwin ever had was a summer course, Elementary Orchestration, that he took at Columbia University in 1921.

YGK - I've heard Wynton Marsalis's classical playing but not his jazz playing. He certainly seems to have a great deal of technical prowess, but I can understand where it would be hard for someone to excel in both classical and jazz since they are such different musical genres. Perhaps he'd do better if he just played classical music since that seems to be where his greater skills lie.

Sociable Hermit - Regarding honorary degrees, Donald Fagen was awarded an honorary doctorate from Bard a few years ago. But he's certainly done enough good work to deserve it, as has Cosby, and it at least it was granted by a school he actually has ties to (graduated from it, donates money to it, sometimes attends graduations) rather than one that's just trying to get some attention by awarding a well-known person an honorary degree.

JW Malibu - I didn't know that Wynton Marsalis had written an oratoria - I'll have to look for it. Has it been recorded? He sure has been keeping busy with a lot of worthwhile projects! It would seem to me, at least, that his work in promoting jazz offsets his lack of ability in playing it and may provide a more lasting benefit for jazz musicians and listeners than a searingly fantastic playing style would.

F#maj - Oh, yes, now I know who Gary Brooker is. Yes, I have enjoyed his singing. My favorite Procol Harum song is Whiter Shade of Pale - I really like that instrumental bridge based on J.S. Bac