SIS Archives -- September 1999

"An armed population is a polite population" ??????
Who's kidding who?

It seems to me that govenrments mostly local and state, but even the Federal government SHOULD be involved but are not OBLIGATED to be involved in the arts. Expression through the arts is part of the very fabric of the country. Funding of PBS is essential for the survival of smaller markets such as here. Should Barney funnel the beacoup $$ he coups from merchandise back to PBS? Certainly! Still 90%+ of funds are obtained outside the Fed offerings.

However, this is a double edged sword. It is unreasonable if public $$ supports an art facility or enterprise, that the consituents and elected officials that represent them will not and should not have an influence on the content. The best way to do that is to seek representation on those boards, volunteer to put together exhibits, and put the word out on the street. For poiliticians, they would be derelict of duty if they did not get on the bully pulpit if offensive material is displayed. Certainly if dung were on top of the Star of David, the Koran, or even pictures of Babe Ruth, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, the President of NOW, gay rights leader etc etc. there would be outcries and talk of "hate crimes/speech." Does Mayor Rudy have the right to whine and threaten to reduce funding if an offensive pattern continues? Probably. There is no contract that government MUST support art without the taxpayers concensus.

Does he have the right to physically withdraw the offensive "piece" of art or close the museum? NO, because that's *censorship* whether in Gotham or River City! To recap: it's a fact of life though that if public funds are involved, there's no carte blanche. Perhaps more private fundraising or selling art over the internet is in order if we want to cut the umbilical cord of govenment subsidies. That's a decision for each municipality to make. Baaaallllllszzaaaaccc!!!

fezo--WHAT is in the water?? I also had a Steely dream last night, though not anywhere near as entertaining as yours. I was among a bunch of people hanging out with Mr. Becker, simultaneously trying to know what was going on and trying to efface myself as much as possible. Got to chat with him, worrying the entire time that I was being an idiot. It was by the ocean, and he was in white (back off already with your Messiah interps). He played some tracks--none complete--from The New One as we all were so busy stealing wide-eyed looks at each other we could scarcely listen. Of course I can't remember how any of it sounded.

YGK--Maybe his name should be Offali.

RB--I beg to differ, as usual. Of course art should be the government's business. How else are you going to karmically counterbalance all the megatonnage of nukes, nerve gas, and nasty counterinsurgents? Artists have enough goddamn trouble trying not to starve. Why not reward creativity and the search for beauty and the stretching of the human spirit as well as aerospace engineering ripoff artists? There are many artists (and thousands of works which do NOT get the press that a few scatological ones do) who are as much national treasures worthy of maintenance as buildings or parks.

Alta--You're on.

Lars--Whoa, some list. Mr. F & Mr. B didn't play on (or arrange) the Woody disc, but I bet they had a ball listening. I can't believe nobody corrected me, but Chick Corea composed and arranged his side--he DIDN'T play on it. Sorry. If anybody wants a tape of CDW&W, e me. BTW, another bit of trivia--one of Woody Herman's trombonists, Birch Johnson, plays the solo on "Teahouse on the Tracks" on "Kama."

Fan o'--can you teleconference that? I'm GREEN!

OMIO--World with no guns + drunks vs. vice versa--um, you sure these are the only choices? There is a distinction between "gun nuts" and "gun owners." The nine inch nails would make absolutely no difference. People would just start hanging their fuzzy dice from them.

f#--I got that step DOWN.

Hey,

Yeah, this "art" contoversy is ridiculous. It always seems that artists with little artistic talent are the ones that have to pull the media stunts in order to be seen. YGK is exactly right: if this was called by any name other than one with religious significance, it would be attracting very little attention. Why? Because it's crap on canvas. I completely understand an artists need to express his/her self. But, let's face it - what is it that is being expressed? Do we know what the artist is trying to convey? Please don't tell me that it is open-ended specifically so it can be interpreted by each patron, because that's crap, too. It's only purpose is to shock, and give the artist exposure. It's like a guy standing on a street corner screaming, "Fuck You!", over and over again. All he's trying to do is get attention. He has nothing meaningful to say otherwise, but he knows if he does this, he's getting exactly what he set out to accomplish. A few years back in Chicago, there was a painting in an exhibit in the Art Museum of the late mayor Harold Washington wearing a dress. Well, when the city council found out about it, all hell broke loose. Aldermen and women, along with the Chicago police (!) stormed the museum and confiscated the painting. It wasn't even a good painting, but the guy got what he wanted - attention. If somone took a picture of me pissing at the mouth of a cave, and called it "Hermit Pissing", people wouldn't think of it as art. But, call it "Pissing On Christ's Tomb", and suddenly it's art! Wow, how dare he piss on Christ's tomb. give me a break.
Perhaps in the future, junk like that should just be ignored, instead of being fussed over. Then people would be forced to view the work for what it is, without all media build-up. Every artist, whether visual, musical, print, whatever, wants to succeed. And most times they need to market themselves in order to be heard. Kiss wore make-up. John Waters had a scratch and sniff movie. The thing is, when all the extraneous shit is stripped away, the product or the message still hao be good, or people will realize it, and not care anymore. This, hopefully, forces the artist to dig deeper and find something that will speak to people for a long time, instead of merely piquing their morbid curiosity for a weekend.

Later,

Herm

....and just WHO do you think Lord Tariq is anyway? Yo, hommes, it's just Donald showing his 'black' side....."

I have a friend who might have dissed Rick Reilly, but did it ever cross your mind that she might have her tongue placed firmly in her cheek. I thought it was bloody funny

weirdos

10 out of 10 non-alcoholics die

Q

Ruby: There are some in the art community who will declare how significant the art in the Saatchi collection is. I am not one of them. I have my own theories. And while I will defend the museum for taking creative risks, I won't defend the exhibit on it's own.
They should have the right to show it, if they think it's important.

I'd prefer to say the exhibit's not Scot-tish, and therefore.....
it's CRAP! (And, in a way, it IS!)

It's amazing the depths someone eccentric enough as Saatchi will go to decleare his 'taste'.
I will close on this by saying that if a work of art really had substance, it wouldn't need hype, it wouldn't need to be Sensational. Now imagine if Offili's "Holy Mary" or whatever its called was renamed to anything else. All of a sudden, the blasphemy goes away. No problem. Just a bad piece of art with little relevance. If someone wants to offend, it's a pretty easy thing to do. (Hey, watch me offend Clas and Lars in two minutes and in under 20 words! Won't you feel I'm 'talented' then?)
And let's not forget that this 'freedom of expression thing' is a precursor to our 'freedom of religion thing'.

and "Somewhere, some writer is sending his new bit to SNL called "Collage Crap!"

Ruby- You really took the cake with that "Donald Fagen is black" remark.

Ruby: We've found your head.

I know it wasn´t meant for me Ruby, but you must have a very interesting dictionary... .

Ruby Baby - Uh, I think Donald Fagen's Jewish and not African American.

> I've noticed some similarities between Donald Fagen and him.
> (besides the fact that they're both African American.)

Eh?

"into things in which" very bad grammar. Fix it any way y'all would like.

sociable herm: I meant to tell you before - thanks for explaining to me about men. It's not something that is often put into words, and with such clarity! You'd probably get along great with my guy. However, we've got an arrangement that only allows me to be inside his inner circle. Other women have to keep a certain distance...

ygk: I was wondering what you thought about that exhibit. I was hoping you'd think it was tasteless.
I don't even think it's art. If someone shit on a shingle, would it be a work of art? Or would it be dinner? Or would it just be a waste of a good shingle? (Different strokes for different folks.)
This is why our government should never use tax dollars for such endeavors. It drags the taxpayers into things in which are irrelevent to the purpose of government. Let individuals or special interest groups fund such operations. If this Charles Saatchi guy had footed the bill, it would be another story. In order to have a good foundation for the First Amendment, there ought to be a clear separation of government from these entities. Just mho.

clas: var ligge du, min befalhavare?

Anyone here a Nat King Cole fan? I've noticed some similarities between Donald Fagen and him. (besides the fact that they're both African American.)

rb

Howard's site is the best you'll find for accurate chords and guitar tab on SD songs, IMO. He's got lots of other artists on there as well.
The guy's got a great ear.
Check out his "Chord Theory 101" page.

Hutch

Is there somewhere a fella can pick up a video of SD in concert?

D. Fagen:

Thanks for posting chords to "Kid Charlemagne".

When you cut and pasted them from my website (www.ph.ed.ac.uk/~haw/music/music/tabfiles.html#steelydan), you should have double checked the formatting problem - I think that's why the Bb13 ended up in the wrong place, no?

If anyone else wants to check up on Dan chords, feel free to visit. As others have mentioned, getting guitar chords from the Steely Dan songbooks is just a waste of time ...

Oh, no-one posted the chords to the solo/instrumental part, so here they are:

INSTRUMENTAL
-------------

E7#9 A7 Dm7 F/C B7 E7 Am G6

Fmaj7 Em7 Dm7 B7 Em7 D6 Cmaj7 Em7 D6/E

Am G6 F6/9 Bb13 F G Am G6

Dm7 Em7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 Em7 Dm7

C7#9

chord shapes for previous chord postings and for this chunk all available from my site.

YGK: great analysis of Mayor Rudy's latest attempts the rid the city of all civil liberties. God damn it, if I want to see the Virgin Mary covered with poop, it's my constitutional right.

Apparently, the "artist" in question, Ofilli, is well known for such creations. Mary is not the first person to be so covered. A cynic would wonder if the mayor would have been so upset if Hillary had been similarly depicted.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Vine/1766/sounds/sounds.html

to hear Tori Amos' version of "Do It Again,"

hell, I ain't a fan, but it's intresting to hear...she did a great job....

omio,
interesting theory. do you think the children who were shot to death in l.a., texas and colorado and numerous other places by your compatriot gun owners would have behaved even worse had there been no guns to keep them in line?

One More Thing: BTW - the words "disgusting and repulsive" have been used with alarming frequency this past week. The words have been used to describe both the state of golf in America by some visiting British, and the state of art visiting America created by the British.

It seems like THEIR freedom of expression is something many Americans disagree with....

ygk

Freakin' PR: Well, it's a complex question. What do I think of the exhibit itself? or the Mayor's Morality play? I didn't realize we lived in a Fascist Society.

Basically, the City has a non-voting seat on the Board of Directors for the Brooklyn Museum of Art. They have for quite some time, now. They didn't show for several meetings - or they were asleep - and didn't realize that this exhibit, "Sensation" was coming.

And then, all of a sudden, WHAM!

The Museum get's $7 million in city funds, and our Mayor Rudy is attempting to stop the payment of funds because he doesn't like the exhibit, stating the exhibit is offensive to Catholics, a major group he needs to win the Senate next year when he runs against Hillary. He cites not more than half a dozen works, the most notable now, by Chris Ofilli, who made a painting called, "The Holy Virgin Mary", which features a collage made up of cutouts from pornographic magazines and features elephant dung secured conspicuously as part of her exposed breast. (If he had called it anything else, I don't think people would have bothered with it at all.)

So it comes down to a First Amendment Issue. The Museum's lawyers have pointed out that, even though the city provides some funds to a Museum, the decision to do so DOES NOT allow them to renege on the deal if they don't like the content. They are stating that they will support the arts in that capacity of the museum, etc.....and provide funding for cultural exchange, etc. It's not a conditional situation.

But now I hear the Senate is getting involved and that's just too fuckin' wild, people.

The Museum's intent was to raise their box office - which this undoubtedly will do. However, now the Feds and the City are beginning to act like all these cult groups said they were.
This is legitimately scary.

From my small organization's standpoint, which is holding two exhibits in October, we are attempting to use the word 'Sensation' to our advantage. "New Modern American Art Sans Sensation" is the grouping of our next two exhibits. They feature new works by relatively unknown artists, but the work is real quality and has a great deal of substance, unlike - in my not so humble opinion - the work in the Sensation exhibit.

Also, keep in mind that the exhibit is work collected by one guy - Charles Saatchi - and it's his taste we are experiencing. Also, any hype the exhibit receives adds 'value' to the works within the collection, so now, not only is Guiliani making a fuss over bad art, but he's increasing it's value!

I think overall the BMA made a poor decision. While I - and we, the organization - support BMA's ability to present provocotive artwork, personally, and like other institutions like the Metropolitan, the Whitney and some others, we don't give the collection much merit.

sorry for the ramble - big questions call for big answers - and I just scratched the surface.....

ygk

Poor little trike: No one loves you. Mommy was too mean.

Squeeze your little horn.

ATBP*

oleander: I don't know why I left Victor Feldman off my posted list. His name was on the list IN FRONT OF my computer. I probably just couldn't read my own scribbling. My error.

Freakin' PR: How did you know I have BBQ's?

Can't remember who: Someone remarked about Elvis Costello on the SNL anniversary show. I just happened to read that day that the idea of him recreating the famous song change wasn't even SNL's idea. Originally, SNL had only hired the Beastie Boys to appear that night. During rehearsals, they decided to play an Elvis song for the show, but then were somewhat reluctant, since they thought that if they sung one, they might sound stupid. Then they hit upon the recreation idea, and called Elvis himself to see if he'd be interested in joining them on stage. Seems Elvis was all for the idea, and it turns out that he is somewhat a fan of the Beasties. Then I read a few days later, that in the wee small hours of the after show party, Elvis, Steven Tyler, Dan Ackroyd, and Paul Shaefer were in some extended blues jam. Hopefully, Ackroyd eventually got too tired and fell asleep, leaving those who were still around to hear some good music.

Later,

Herm

fezo: That sounds like the greatest show ever!

My obsessed self had yet another dream about our heroes last night. It's a concert. Donald comes out first dressed like that Andy Kaufman lounge lizard character, telling bad jokes, chumming up to everyone, then sits down at the piano and does a pretty good version of "Babylon Sister". Song ends, Donald resumes patter, pretty soon Walter comes running out like he's being introduced as one of the starting five of the Knicks, chugging a bottle of Jack. Walter and Donald do about 10 minutes of stand-up of the Abbott and Costello variety before doing some more songs.

Then they convince three audience members, including yours truly, to come up on stage so they can view the rest of the show from their perspective. But the seats turn out to be catapults I discover much too late.

Criminal = The Fez

Shadowboxer = Pretzel Logic

NB: I'm really diggin' that ode to the Apple rap rip-off of Black Cow... "eNwhY, worl'wide..."

Clas: okay, you just invited everyone to call me if they wish to send you money. I think I'm safe here.

clas: "IF you are obeying my orders."
ruby: "Ja, kyss my ass!" (do you take me seriously?)

How much is a D#m7 worth? I thought I heard someone say "that and 75 cents will get you a cup of coffee."

stranger: guns in one place? no more sitcoms? I say we get right to the heart of the matter and outlaw telemarketing. Those intrusive, lying, good-for-nothing, swindling preditors. Not to mention rude... We just give 'em the old duck call around here.

rb

Hey Clas:

Yourkeyboardhasaspacebarforareason.Useit.

...an armed society is a Polite society.. Like being a Drunk, there's nothing like personal accountability for one's words & deeds... Is there an Assholes Anonymous?
Basically, one AA is the same as another, because the psychological dynamics are the same..
Would you rather live in a world where there were no guns, and everyone was a drunk, or in a world with no alcohol & everyone was armed?
Cripes, I know Hells Angels have more civil discussions than a lot of the exchanges in this GB..
I guess they're in better contact with their Inner Barbarian than those who don't bet their lives & jawbones with every word they say..
Violence doesn't start with the weapon.. It starts in your heart & mind.. Usually with ill-considered, reactionary mouthing off..
One traffic safety engineer suggests that replacing the seatbelts & airbags we have to protect us from our own lousy driving with a dashboard full of 9" spikes would do a lot more to reduce collisions than any other method... Same idea.

I just got a copy of Crosby, Pevar & Raymond (CPR).. Who mention Steely Dan & have some very Dannish sounds going on..
How about a chord-structure analysis & comparison, just to keep your hands where I can see 'em..?
Bang! You're it..

Herm: 5 grand on a cave audio system. Sweet. I want to be at your next BBQ.

YGK: Hey, I come in peace. What is your take on the Brooklyn art exhibit?

"Thanks RubyBaby! You know I love you. IF you are obeying my orders."

I don't know what I mean with "IF you are obeying my orders". But you know me, you don't take things I say around here seriously?

See, now I have forgot why I logged in...

... yeah, shouldn't you Sign In Stranger-regulars give me a price for correcting that wrong chord (D#m7)? Black Friday will sound better now when they play it live. Is there any chance that mr Nichols can change the A#-note to an A-note on Alive In America?

I can stretch it so far that I think mr Becker and mr Fagen should give me a price. My emailaddress is below. Or make it a telephonecall, and I'll give you my emailaddress. My birthday is Oct 9. Just as Jackson Browne and John Lennon.

Call RubyBaby if you can't afford to call abroad, she has my number. Email me and I'll give you her number. Greeting from Sweden Steely Dan!

You don't mind RubyBaby?

C

Lew Chang
Good to see you are still alive and well!
Good News!!!!!
Danfest 99 at Kiama,NSW,Australia, Begins this Sunday at 11.30am

Agenda includes:-
Good food,wine,beer,Live Steely Dan Video,Live In the Studio, Aja Interview (with cue sheets ofcourse)
more beer,hard to get recordings of our beloved SD,more beer and food,etc.

All welcome

RSPV ASAP

Thanks RubyBaby! You know I love you. IF you are obeying my orders.

Altamira, could you email me please, I don't wanne discusse AA here. I ask nicely.

atelje.lundkvist@swipnet.se

AA, when all my drinking is thru, I run to you...

Hermit again; of course they played together under Bird´s direction as sidemen.

Havent seen much from the Oz conection lately!.....Mr Chow...Fanofdan, what`s going down??, maybe your tapeing some videos!!!!! Ha Ha

Hermit - but I cant find any recording with Ray Brown and Miles.
Another bass-player almost made it - Harvey Brooks - who toured with The NYR&S but never recorded.

ok, this is probably not the dfinitive list but here´s the 12 men:

Marcus Miller
Phil Woods
Jerome Richardson
Benhard Purdie
Joe Sample
Wayne Shorter
David Sanborn
Chuck Findley
Victor Feldman
Larry Carlton
Tom Barney (1 track on Star People)
John Beasley (on the postumus (??) Time after time)

I cant find any recordings with Miles and Bulluck.
Did D&W actually play on the Woody Herman project?

Oleander,
It's EDDIE Higgins. Good pianist, but not a lot of bite to him. What he provides is terrific background music when you're doing other things. Sort of like a jazzed Mozart. 'Haunted Heart' is piano, bass, drums and that's it. I believe you could hear a sample of his album over on cdnow.com This is a paid advertisement.

Why don't gun nuts all live in one section of the country? Nebraska maybe. Or Montana. We ought to put that in the Constitution. Along with a law against sitcoms.

O: damn this procrastinating... Sure, I'm easy. Check out this one. AiA alum Dennis Chamber amy get an award for working with the most Miles sidemen and ALMOST working with Miles himself. Mr. Chambers started his recording career with George Clinton/Funkadelic/Parliament and went on to work with Miles illuminaries:
John Mclaughlin, Foley, Darryl Jones, John Scofield, Kenny Garrett, Bill Evans, Hiram Bullock, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, and Marcus Miller. He recorded on a Kenny Garrett album entitled "Prisoner of Love" in which Miles contributed...BUT they did not play on the same tracks!

Dennis Chambers has also worked with the Brecker Bros., Mr. Steve Khan, Mitchell Froom, and a Wayne Krantz CD with Anthony Jackson!

A - Ah, yes, as 10 out of 10 people die whether they drink or not. That's life, and death, and we make the best of it we can. As the bumpersticker says, eat healthy food, exercise regularly, and die anyway. There's no way around that limitation.

Soc Herm: I'm fairly certain John Beasley played with Miles on one or more of his last recordings....

ygk

Oleander - I will make my debut into the pool with February 20 - releasing the New One would be a fitting way for Walter to celebrate his 50th birthday. Of course, Donald might want to release it on January 10 to celebrate his 52nd birthday, but those decade birthdays make such impressive milestones.

10 out of 10 alcoholics die.

Herm--Victor Feldman was on "Seven Steps to Heaven" and in fact I think he wrote that tune. "Chick, Donald, Walter, and Woodrow" was indeed a '78 album done by Woody Herman with his arrangements of Steely tunes on one side and a Chick Corea arrangement on the other, "Suite For A Hot Band," on which Corea played. So this is a reach--they didn't actually play together, but held up opposite sides of a disc united by Woody Herman and his band.

Mu--so if we're reaching, we could include Horace Silver for the quote of "Song For My Father" in "Rikki."

Hey you guys, as the days roll by the Betting Pool is looking pretty pitiful. Anybody want to update their guesses for first quarter of '00?

I agree with everything JW said regarding the VS series, except I'd recommend springing for the internal FX card.

My 880 has given me ZERO problems since I've owned it.

I also run XLR thru my Mackie so lack of them on the VS isn't a problem.

Her Brother: Ray Brown played string bass on "Razor Boy".

Later,

Herm

Clas: Be the one out of ten. "Don't give up - you've got the music in you."

rb

Herm: Just found a link to a compilation chart for the sidemen from Downbeat. I'm swamped - sending you to the library...Bullock and Beasely are listed for what it's worth. Some of the other mentioned are not, so it may not be complete

http://www.nettally.com/dbird/Legacy.htm

Robert: we're laughing WITH him...there's no record of the real Robert P. returning the $$ he earned for Victor/Victoria.

Midnite ~

A. Regarding your three choices on the Roland units: Don't buy the 840. If you plan on writing any extended pieces, the Zip drive could cause capacity problems. Also, the user interface (faceplate/mixer) is somewhat squished, hence lots of softkeys with a zillion different functions to remember. The 1680 is the preferable way to go, but if you want to come in under 2k, go with the 880EX. If you've got a rack full of outboard gear, don't bother with the extra internal effects card. I've got both (outboard gear and the effects card), and hardly ever use the internal effects. Don't get me wrong, the effects and amp simulators sound great, but the effect card user interface leaves something to be desired. You can always add it later if you so desire.

B. Regarding the 1/4"/XLR input issue: Here's how I deal with it ~ I run all my synths/mics/guitars/etc. through my Mackie mixer, which solves the XLR problem on the 880. The Mackie has good mic pre-amps, as I'm sure your Studiomaster does, and I give my Rode NT2/other mics additional boost with an Aphex 107 tube mic pre-amp. I then run the master outs from the Mackie into inputs 1/2 of the 880. The net/net is: you completely circumvent the limited input/XLR issue. Example ~ I'll write a MIDI bed which utilizes 6+ different synths, get the mix just right using external effects via the aux sends, and track the entire bed (master out) to tracks 1/2 on the 880, panning L/R hard. You then have 6 tracks free (excluding virtual tracks) to begin layering acoustic instruments and/or vocals without bumping. And, because it's digital the bumping (if you need to, within limits) causes near-zero degeneration (at least to my frazzled ears). You can also slave the VS to your sequencer in mix mode, meaning you don't have to use ANY tracks for your MIDI beds.

C. Regarding the digital workstation vs. computer hard disk recording: I've got both, and they both serve specific purposes ~ I use Cubase VST (digital audio/MIDI sequencer) if I'm trying to build Beck/Garbage-type music that is heavily loop/sample oriented. You can do that type of composing on the VS, but it's a bitch looking at that little screen for hours on end. It's like trying to build a spreadsheet on a palmtop PC. The majority of stuff that I write is conventional MIDI bed with acoustic stuff on top, ala 11TOW. The VS works fine for this type of recording. Advantages of the VS over hard disk recording:

1. You can take it with you. If I need a killer lead guitar track, I'll often just drag my 880 over to one of my guitarist friend's house, and mic his cabinet directly into the 880. Saves them setup/teardown time, and saves me from listening to neighbors bitch about a Marshall stack being played at full-punch.

2. The VS880 is quieter than a PC. It's got a tiny fan, but nothing like the noise generated by a PC (you really have to put the PC into another room if you're using a super-sensitive mic).

3. My VS880 has NEVER crashed on me in almost two years. My PC crashes/hangs on a regular basis.

4. You have physical mixing sliders on the VS. Ever try mixing from a computer keyboard ~ it ain't happenin'!

Bottom line: for the most bang for your buck, buy a VS880. that way you can implement all of your existing equipment, and build from there...you can always add Cubase/Cakewalk/ProTools, etc. later....

Buy anything by Denon, Kenwood, or Harmon Kardon. Fuck the Japs and their Sony boxes-cdracks-mp3players. The wires inside are all set to explode at a specific timea. i'TS LINear. The shitsus are all trained to chew threough the plaxtic and will break teeth shockingly. Harmon Kardon is American like baked beans and spiro agnew and craps. Not that it's a good thing.

Herm....if you're determined to spend the money I'd probably go with a McIntosh or Carver integrated amp or seperate power & pre amps, Nachamichi CD Player and the better grade of Infinity, Polk Audio or Klipsch speakers. Don't know what other components you want but this would be a good start. A new Sony rack would also be a choice I'd at least give a listen to. You'd be saving a ton of money. The main thing is to let your ears decide for you, not a bunch of advertising hype. How it sounds is ultimatley all that really matters anyway. Happy Shopping!

MC

Hermit- Ray Brown the bass player, may have played with Miles, but never with Becker or Fagen. On the other hand, Tom Barney the bass player, played with both. You left him off your list.

Believe it or not, I saw Hiram Bullock last night at the China Club in NYC. He looks like he's about to fall over and die. The poor guy must be around 400 pounds now.

Just remembered something...

Can anyone suggest some really good home stereo equiptment that isn't too ridiculously priced? I guess $5,000 would the about highest I would want to go. I've had nothing but Sony rack systems for the past 11 years, and, although they aren't all that bad, I feel it's time to graduate to something better.

Later,

Herm

Dr Mu: That explains why I couldn't find anything about Hiram; I was looking strictly at recordings under Miles' name. I would say that working in his concert band qualifies him as a Miles sideman. I wouldn't say that working on a Gil Evans album does, though. And as far as Corea goes, since it was his album, and they produced it, they were probably more his sidemen than he was theirs. I agree that there is a connection, I just wouldn't classify it as sideman work.

Later,

Herm

Picture of the rack I made reference to in my previous post:

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6974/Rack.jpg

Thought I had it in there but the HTML monster must have eaten it!

MC again

JWMalibu and anyone else familiar with Roland's VS series of digital recorders:

I'd like to get into digital recording over the next couple of months. Here is what I have and I'm not sure which way to proceed to get the best bang for the buck. I've got an 8 track Fostex 1/4" reel to reel and a 16 channel Studiomaster board that's very clean. I'm also moving this computer (Pentium 200, 4.3Gig HD, 80 megs RAM, NIC for our home network) to the music room which is upstairs. I don't know whether to supplement my current mixer and synths, guitars, bass and drum machine with the computer and some type of interface or go with the Roland 840EX, 880EX or 1680. I see that neither the 840 or the 880 have XLR inputs so I'm not sure about how the best way to record vocals or mic guitar amps. The synths, bass and drum machine will be run direct. The 1680 has two XLR inputs but is straining the budget. I see that the 840 uses 250 meg Zip disks and that the 880 and 1680 have the 2.1 Gig Hard Drives built in. Given what I have to work with now and that my budget really needs to stay under $2,000 I'd like to know what any of you think will be my best value for the dollar. I should also mention I've got a decent rack full of what I'll need as far as signal processing goes so built in effects on any of the units isn't a major concern. For the curious, I only use the power amp section of the McIntosh along with the preamp in the Studiomaster board to power two JBL 4311 monitors. Anyone with any thoughts on my situation PLEASE respond. I need all the input I can get before I lay out the bucks.

Thanks,
MC

We got trouble right here in Guestbook land
Which starts with H and ends with A
and stands for intolerance

Soc: Hiram Bullock played on Gil Evans' "The Honey Man" album wil Bill Evans and Miles Davis. He also played in concert with Miles while with Marcus Miller's band about the time of Tutu and Amandla.

As Oleander was hinting Donald and Walter produced and album for Chick Corea and Woody Herman circa 1978.

F#: Well, Sinbad O'Connor and I recently shaved our eyebrows in a pact involving abstinence from photos. When one tries to give the people what they want, you might just give them what they need. The yin-yang between elitism and populism. Two Against (their) Nature: John Adams was from a lower class background and became an elitist; Jefferson was from a priviledged background and was a proponent (and lover) of the common folk...and he doesn't know the territory...Still love Marian the librarian - and then to discover later those nimble hand gestures by the great Robert Preston were not a result of simply being a ham...

Edd: Thanks. "Warped..." is out of print, but clearly Walter had a lasting influence as their sound on that song is far different from the early 80s recordings (BW - before Walter). BTW, my tag is the "other" white meat.

Hey Everyone,

Now, I am in no way suggesting that this is a definative list, but I will say that after some investigating, these are the only sidemen that I could find that shared both Miles Davis and Don and Walt as bosses:

Jerome Richardson
Wayne Shorter
Ray Brown
Bernard Purdie
Chuck Findley
Joe Sample
Marcus Miller

But that's it. Hiram Bullock and John Beasley never recorded with Miles.
Some of you had mentioned Keith Jarrett, Sonny Rollins, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. I know they all recorded with Miles, but when were they ever with Steely Dan? Have I missed something?

oleander: There's always a chair waiting for you.

Later,

Herm

JollyR: don't forget to floss

Clas: cue up My Favorite Things and hit on an Oral Surgeon [who will prescribe oxycodone if you can improvise symptomology].

Oleander: the first step is to admit you are powerless over SD

MidniteC: I wish- have 2 kidz in college [and a lot of tape hiss]

Altamira: didn't take your post to be AA bashing nor did i hear you pass judgement... you must have pushed some buttons. All the things you said are true- in context. w/r/t passing judgement: this isn't supposed to happen at an AA meeting. 'tearing down fragile egos' is the antithesis of The Program which advocates the arrival of "non-judgement" day [sure, i say in jest, but jest so]. Read Infinite Jest! a splendid recommendation from O. The range of AA success is, indeed, "hysterical conversion" you describe [but they stopped drinking and lived] across the spectrum to 'spiritually transformed and bonded to the brotherhood'. Is it a surrogate for "normal, loving relationships on the "outside" or does it obfuscate the distinction because it is both? confusing- but the answer is yes.
both. Your post is entirely valid, and IDs a blessing and a curse. But- judgemental, ego tearing AA meeting is an oxymoron.
Your acquaintence needs to try some different meetings.

JWMalibu: ya...music for the common folk [and the "think" method]

DrMu- can't see your eyebrows so the Dewey/Truman approach:
thing one) right! they had to turn him around to see that what he felt was not the lynch mob from 7 symphonies back when the Patrons took exception to a certain flatted 7th. Music certainly is for the common folk even though they will be as fickle as the aristocracy.
thing two)too cryptic. elabortion: opera may have begun as an excuse for spectacle but was greatly advanced as an art form. Alluding to Carmen was pointing out to Clas [who, even after 60mg codeine, already knows!] that, as Altamira picked up on, great efforts were [and still are] made to bring the art form to common folk. There will always be elitists who live to fortify barriers to distinguish themselves in self-agrandizing fashion. The comedic irony of "professor" Harold Hill: in an effort to RIP OFF the common folk, he accidentally brought them great music. perhaps i prevaricate but isn't it pretentious to purport that you can perceive what is pretentious?

pixilated,
F#

F# - Granted, much of the current classical music scene is pretty moribund, as orchestras put together programs of tried-and-true music to avoid scaring away their subscribers by playing anything new. Yet there are more adventuresome orchestras and smaller ensembles who do play of lot of new music and give great encouragement to composers. I'm especially fond of modern classical music and I hear a fair amount of it on the symphony broadcasts played on the local commercial classical station, which tends to be as unadventuresome as possible.

I read an article a while back about an orchestra in Florida that put on an all-Zappa program, involving both his classical compositions (which were quite experimental and enormously complex and difficult) and his orchestrations of popular songs he had written. Rock musicians joined the orchestra on some of the pieces, and the concert drew a capacity crowd and received favorable reviews.

JW Malibu - Yes, AA has saved many lives and is doing much good. However, that is true of other programs too, such as Rational Recovery, Women for Sobriety, and Moderation Management. Many of the people involved with these organizations did not find AA to be helpful and were relieved and grateful to find a program that better suits their needs and does help them. People are different and any program that is good for some people will not be good for everyone. It seems to me that those who do not find AA to be helpful are better off finding a program that does help them than to give up hope of recovering.

Clas - it actually means that 3 out of 4 dentists recommend Trident for their patients who chew gum...............................................................................................................................................

No, I don't got it, you prick. You Swedish asshole, suck me off, faggot. How do you say, "suck me," in Swedish? I want you to tell me, so I can say it to your wife next time I see her..........................I'll do as many dots as I want, you see, you Swiss cocksucker? What do you do, sit around and eat Swiss cheese all day, and make watches?...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Will someone help me? I've got a twisted up meat biscuit in my thing-holey, and i'ts all red and stinky now. I've stuck a peanutbutter knife in there and i'ts all psussy/nasty and it hurts. Its red and nasty and I'm smaking it with a frozen beef patty, smak, smak, smak. It just keeps getting redder and redder all the time. Did you call the paramedics, Martha? L A Cigar, Too Tragical. Sit on a potato pan, otis. And Dutch Schultz said some pretty fucked up stuff on his death bed, was it aliens speaking through him, was he already dead? Oh, hey, yeah there it is
+2 whoops, I just dropped a piece of fudge on the linoleum. A piece of p oop fudge for my pet pussy cat. Eat it you asshole cat. Eat it yuou negra cat. I'ts a black cat, his name is paramecium. Ow, stop spanking me, paramecium. OH, here's a postcard from 12 Calle Doce, Tangiers, Morrocco. Is Paul still alive? You know he poisoned Jane, the bastard. And Blackbeard burned those smoldering flaames for a reason: He was courting the loas of the southern seas. Aw, shit, I just farted and it sprayed out on the floor. Did you get it yet? Hell, bring it over here and quickly. I could use some pickmeup. F#A# Infinity. YYY. I extracted the modem from the ISA slot asnd SLAMed it on the pavement, oh, shit I forgot to get tickts. Hope its not sold out. Get out of here, you asshole cat. Billy, I AM Dutch. It goes way back, but it's there. Will you come to MY deathbed, and use some of your Gysin cutups on my last words/? Damn, it stinks in here.

Zorro - three dots... not five or two or seven, got it?

Who is Michael Mac Douglas?

Studies show that 9 out of 10 people who view this Guestbook find it to be an utter waste of time.

Where is Catherine Zeta-Jones........oh, she's with Micheal Douglas.

Z

re: Mu, M.D.

I believe "Hands On The Wheel" was from the "Warped By Success" CD from sometime in the mid-90's...

JWMalibu - hey, what do you mean, one out of ten makes if they're AA-members?

Then I should feel safer outside that organisation?

Do we have a dentist out here somewhere? I'm runnung out of chodeine.

RubyBaby - no, you're not.

Bubbui do baba di bo, where's the nearest meeting sweethearts?

"It's estimated that 9 out of 10 alcoholics/addicts die as the end result of drinking/using; it's a small minority that make it into recovery and stay sober."

Oh man, 1 out of 10?

Edd / China Crisis experts: There's a great song called Hands on the Wheel for the Best of/Compilations...It certainly rings heavily of Becker with a serious horn chart, but I don't remember it from Flaunt the Imperfection or Diary of a Hollow Horse...an outtake? or recorded for Best of ?

Ole, Lars: Jeez, just table scraps left:
Hiram Bullock
Keith Jarrett - now I'm not sure...going to sleep now

Ole, Lars: Jeez, just table scraps left:
Hiram Bullock
John Beasley

reaches:
Keith Garrett - Gaucho credit
Sonny Rollins - album on the Nightfly cover
Miles collaborator Charlie Parker - Parker's Band
Joe Zawinul - played with Peter Erskine in Weather Report

Can't think of any link for Stan Getz, Marcus Miller, George Benson, and Larry Coryell but could be older contemp. jazz scurvy brothers.

Yes, the revamped Sign in Stranger is magnificent on AiA...that horn break is sooooootasty and unexpected. Smoother than the original with a much less repetitive sound...

Altamira ~ You're right, the program doesn't work for MOST drunks/addicts. It's estimated that 9 out of 10 alcoholics/addicts die as the end result of drinking/using; it's a small minority that make it into recovery and stay sober. AA has saved innumerable lives ~ 'nuff said.

Midnite ~ Feel free to shoot any Roland VS questions my way, I'm a die-hard fanatic! I was watching the SNL retro tonight, and they showed the skit w/Gilda as "Candy Stripe" in the recording studio, with Bill Murray as the record promo-man...ROLF! "Go!"

Edd ~ "Chris Gaines" is tryin' too hard to look like Chris Cornell, safe bet that the album/soundtrack will sound jes' like him too! Better keep that cowboy hat handy, son....

F#Maj9 ~ "We've got trouble...right here in River City!"

Out Swinging - I started to read that article at the library many years ago and have wondered about finding it again ever since. I'll have to look into it and see what I can find.

Bill W. - Those were not idiotic statements; they were based on my own personal experience and the experience, and research, of a number of people. I did not say that AA was bad for everyone; certainly it is valuable for some people. But it is not the best approach for everyone who has trouble controlling their drinking.

I know that AA meetings differ from one another; I found some that were quite gentle. But many of them are harsh and hurtful toward their members. I'm glad that the ones you went to have been helpful, but many are not, and the damage they inflict on hurting and vulnerable people can last for years. Once again, I did not mean to issue a blanket condemnation of the group, it's just that its methods do not work for everyone. Also, the group's general philosophy is not something that everyone finds meaningful and useful, and it is good that there alternatives - there is something for everyone, for we are all different. Anyway, I probably wrote more harshly than I intended to, and I'm sorry if I insulted you. I mostly wanted to point out that AA is not a one-size-fits-all program and that there are alternatives.

Fezo - Ooh, yes, Andrew Lloyd Weber, bleahh! However, as we consider good musicals, we can think about George Gershwin, whose birthday this is (mine too, I've always been delighted to share a birthday with such a wonderful musician).

Regarding AA, I did come across as harsher than I intended. I know the group helps some people, but they can tear down fragile egos and encourage reliance on a sometimes judgmental group. This can be good for some folks and bad for others; I know a number of folks who have been hurt by AA. I truly did not mean to imply that the group does not help people, since a number of people certainly have benefited from it.

Clas - There are operas about working-class people, for example, I Pagliacci (sp? my Italian's lousy), Cavilieria Rusticana, Carmen, La Boheme, and Porgy and Bess. Back in the days before opera became so horribly overpriced, it was quite popular among the working classes. You do have a point about opera being for the well-to-do these days; I wish there were some way that the ticket prices could be lowered so that more people could enjoy it (like me!), but the productions are so expensive that there doesn't appear to be any way to accomplish that.

The Stranger - Congratulations on the job! I hope it goes well for you.

WannaAussiebe - Yes, I realized I spelled it wrong right after I sent it, but I figured the mistake was so obvious that there was no point in correcting it.

Lars--Now I know the people who really know something about music will be all over this one, but let me start out: Victor Feldman, Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea ("Chick, Donald, Walter, and Woodrow"), Joe Sample, and Bernard Purdie.

Alta--Highly recommend "Infinite Jest" and talking to some people in recovery.

Bill w--Well put.

Herm--So if every night is ladies' night in the cave, save a place at the bar for me.

L'Etranger--You mean "Kind of an Icon"? I think so. Tell me about Ernie Higgins. I detect another keyboard fiend.

jOkEr....rained all day and supposed to rain tomorrow too but they're saying lows in the 30's by this weekend!

Watched and recorded all of SNL's 25th anniversary show last night....great memories! Also, on Saturday, VH1 had four hours of the best music and musical parodies from the 25 years of SNL and there were some classic spots. Wish I had taped all of that too but I didn't. Maybe they'll rerun it soon....it's a shame the boys never did SNL as musical guests....it seems that almost everyone else in popular music has at one time or another.

I have some questions for those of you who use Roland's VS-840, VS-880 and VS-1680 but I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get into them....have a good day and a better night!

MC

that would be in Rolling Stone, which I neglected to mention in my previous post...sorry as all hell...anyway, is it online anywhere?

Is the Steely Dan article in the August, 15th 1974 availible anywhere online?

dan and opera???? Why not jazztrivia instead? The man who ate sidemen almost like Dan - Miles Davis - shares ,on record, (at least) 12 players with dan (and solos).Who?

Altamira, I don't know what planet you're coming or what you take to make such an idiotic statement like you did about AA. It leaves me wondering where your head is sometimes.

AA has helped many I know, including myself gain self esteem to get back on our feet again, allowed us to work and hold our jobs and lead normal lives with their families. So please get off your high horse about AA.

Addiction is hard, harder than hell to combat. Until an addict decides that the monkey on their back is more powerful than they are, they will remain powerless over it until they become responsible for their actions. Addicts DO have low self esteem which is why they abuse themselves by drinking or taking drugs in the first place. Addicts often feel alone in their fight and if it means getting support from others like them or a higher power in order to gain the inner strength to fight it, then so be it. If it works and will stop one from destroying themselves and their loved ones, what's the problem? I've heard many times, if you don't like one AA group, go to another, they're all different.

What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another, and if you're with a group that will support one another and help each other out in a time of need and weakness, you tell me what's wrong with that? I don't know where or if you went to AA, but where I went, we were responsible for our own actions. I have a very high self esteem and I thank God and AA for helping me gain the power and knowledge to recognize my weaknesses.

Believe what you want, but don't pass judgement on an organization that has helped thousands of alcoholics stay sober.

Stereo Review

Saw only about 15 min of SNL 25; but Elvis Costello abruptly stopping the obligatory rendition of a single his record company pushed and launching into the snappy and acerbic Radio Radio had to be THE highlight...

F#: ...and it's a good thing that Ludwig was unable to hear the thunderous response from the common people when his 9th was unveiled in a public concert...he felt and saw

All this talk about pretentiousness and pretentious anti-pretentiousness reminds me of the title emblazoned on Stero Review's send-up of Steely Dan's Gaucho circa early 1981: "Too Good for Common Folk?"

Talk about something that's overrated - after 20 years or so, happened to stumble upon hearing George Harrison's All Things Must Pass...talk about something living on reputation. Sloppy, marginal tunes, pointless jams, and poor production by Phil Ramone. Am I the only one that believes that a 911 call to George Martin was in order?...albeit What is Life is a real rouser amd If Not For You is cute. Although the lyrics are a bit shallow, the tunes on the underrated George Harrison (1978) and the more ambitions Vloud Nine are more interesting than ATMP...well at least it's not Gone Troppo.

Edd: Who? thanx for the advice, I'll be sure not to notice.....

Ruby: Congrats! Hope it's working out for you and da kid....at least it explains what you've been doing *wink* with your time.

ygk

This is starting to resemble a pile-on after a tackle. I'M the one who brought up how stupid an art form modern muscials are. Clas just agreed with me. And of course there is nice music in some of them. It's just that watching them is so strange. First someone's acting, then the same person is singing with chorus, dancing, instrumental accompaniment. Then the person is acting again. In opera, it's all singing and the suspension of belief stays on a steady keel.

I just want to be the first to say I'm sick and tired of "Chris Gaines", and the album won't even be released until tomorrow.

Argh...

Audrey: chameleon on a mirror?

Clas/F#m/D#: back in the 1600s they had no television but, in an effort to revive greek tragedy invented the soap opera. good clean fun for the myopic well-to-do wanting for spectacles...

non-specific Danizens: i used to think that classical music was classic for a reason and even if the reason was lost on me believed there had to be a good reason but eventually suspected that all the la-dee-da-dee-da-dee-da-dee-daaa somnambulations were indicative of patrons who would throw rotten fruit at Stravinsky and maybe even their gold teeth at Ludwig VB [circa symphony 2] for ruining their nice predictable easy listening lentando leisure and i see a connection.

synapse: The Music Man, act two, scene seven "come on now boys-
THINK"

but then, Carmen is kinda catchy, ya Clas?

F#

Clas: You should try my operas (Marriage of Figaro, etc)...in German...for the common folks and paid little attention to while I was alive. Besides Americans are all from working class backgrounds here if one looks back whether recently or long ago. Last time I channeled, it was Sweden who clung to the monarchy.

Hi All,

I believe the tenors name is Jose Cararas.

RubyBaby: Some men feel that way, yes. But not me. I love being around women, in fact, I prefer it to being around men. I can't imagine why any man would chose being with another man over a woman. I never felt like I was expected to engage in all that senseless macho posturing when I'm around women. With men, I feel like I'm being challenged about everything: work, love life, abilities, money, knowledge of sports trivia. It gets tiresome. Of course, not all men are like this. I have two very good friends that I can confide in and just be stupid with, and I never feel like I'm being judged. But in my experiences, it's rare, especially since I'm not a blue-collar regular joe that other men might be able to realte to. I'm in a completely different world sometimes, and I like that world to be populated with women.

anyone: Is there really an Aja "Behind The Music" on VH1, or was that a bogus post? If so, was it on, and/or, when will it be on again?

Later,

Herm

Clas: Okay - I see why you say pretentious. Those megalong instrumentals are over the top. I treat opera and Yes the same. I keep the great stuff and ignore the rest.
I love the some of those sappy musicals like Singing In The Rain. And what about South Pacific? (There Ain't Nothing Like A Dame!)
btw, am I one of those *dominant* women?

anyone: I believe all men at one time or more, would like to have a place of their own without the presence of a female. I think that's fine! Why can't they have *men's clubs* in America anymore? (oh, I'm not talking about gay men's clubs. They can be anywhere these days. Whole different thing...)

fezo: If I help bring out a smile or a chuckle, that's good enough for me! Like the song goes, "Make Someone Happy." (one day at a time, as they say in AA)

Too bad that tenor's name isn't Jose Conseco - then we'd all remember it!

YGK: I forgot to tell you - I'm officially in The Mothers Club now! Do you remember that?

rb

Clas: I can only assume you're baiting us again with your all inclusive dismissal of musicals. Granted, the modern Andrew Lloyd Webber variety bite a big one; his latest effort the most bizarre, the story of Jesus appearing in Louisianna, co-written with Jim Steinman of "Bat Out of Hell" fame.

BUT there are much better examples of the form, "Guys and Dolls" and "Of Thee I Sing" were both considered classics when they debuted over sixty years ago and still stand up today. Similarly, "West Side Story" sounds as fresh today as it did when it came out over forty years ago and is still considered very musically inventive.

Hey, if you want to throw yourself into listening hell, get the Bernstein produced operatic recording of "West Side Story", featuring the three tenor whose name I can't remember. Sounds like Jose Canseco but I don't think that is it.

Alt: I can't figure out why you want to so readily dismiss AA. While there are certain elements of their philosophy I don't necessarily agree with, I don't think it's fair to criticize their efforts to encourage a sense of some type of group self-esteem amongst their members. A lot of addicts reach that state because of a poor sense of individual self-esteem and it's only by gaining a sense of group, a sense that there are others out there who care and have been through similar experiences, that their individual self-esteem can be revived. It's not a matter of having to sacrifice one's individual self for some type of Scientology-like group think that AA advocates. I know they pulled a real good friend of mine out of the depth of multiple addictions, and he's two years clean and still the nut (but now a sober one) that I always knew.

the Stranger - oh man, I would not ever listen to an Opera. I would betray my roots, the workingclass. Never on my foot.

And musicals? That's shit. Tapdancing, Can-can, singing, acting, everything in one (1) box. Hate it.

David In The Fla Room - this is a mans world, okay? You own your wife, I own mine? The woman are on this earth to please us men.

Keep that in mind and your work at the mixingboard will be even better.

Clas F#m/D#

PS Got an email from my son today, he's spent the morningclasses analysing Be-Bop-sols with a microscope. He wasn't too happy.

PSPS Geena - Hope everything is good!

somebody turn off the water.....

Oleander,
Yeah, it's really me. Got in a no-cap rut so decided to make a change. I'm not wearing lingerie anymore either. Which reminds me, guy's in a locker room and his friend can't help noticing he's wearing panties. 'How long have you been wearing those?' he asks. Answer: 'Ever since my wife found a pair in the glove compartment.' Hey, you heard 'Kind of Blue,' by Miles Davis?

Clas,
listen to 'la boheme' and then see if you can still say opera is a terrible art form. and it definitely beats the modern musical, in which characters act awhile, then sing awhile, which of course suspends belief each time. look at the disgusting thing they did with 'les miserable' junking up beautiful story and not one memorable song. now that's real no-imitation shit.

Geena,
When I babysit, I teach the kid poker. So far it's cost me $18 million, but I'm gonna make a comeback.

St. Al,
Pull the plug? You're right. You have the power to do that. And you KNOW you have the power to do that. Now I see you are a supreme being. But are you a force for good or evil?

This board getting unusually feisty considering the silence of the Dans.

Things have gotten so fucking terrible around here I had to take a job, which I start tomorrow. Woe.

Clas, ..."throw out all dominant women from the site"..."boys music"...??????
What the Fuck are you talking about man?
You were just joking right?Tell me you were just having your cyber-fun for the day.
I'm trying to keep a clear head and get through this mixing/mastering thing... but you pulled me out of "Lurk-mode" with that one !
Analyze the chord changes, the Lyrics,the friggin' album covers ...but don't go there , PLEASE.
David

Unmistakable sign of the end times
She scratched this message in my back
Audrey
Audrey in chameleon change

Green blur flying
To a blue shift rising
Rising up my spine to my neck
To where a red dust covers the black street
This is where we meet
Audrey

Unbound and undressed I must confess
That I had the same dream too
Audrey what's gotten into you?

Dragon smoke
(Only the best for my...)
Snake show
(I might have guessed it was...)
Audrey all along

Clas, F#m/D#:
You don't understand anything, but you feel better than anyone else because of what?

Altamira - Yes I KNOW that. But in that songbook it says "...my swell brook". And I KNOW that "you've" been talking about that before. We've been talking about everything here before, except for one thing;

StAl; can't we throw out all dominant woman from this excellent site? Isn't rock/jazz/pop-music boys music?

YGK - pompös, guess what that means in Swedish? Try.

Confucius - yeah, maybe I do, maybe I don't. What do you relly know? Not much.

C, F#m/D#

PS/ Opera IS a terrible "artform". Maybe it worked back in 1763, but now, now are those operaconcerts/houses just a place for the upperclass. They don't understand anything, but they feel better than anyone else because they are watching an OPERA. Barf.

Give me a machine gun.

When Black Friday comes I'll fly down to Muswellbrook

...a town, suburb, really, with no 'z's"...I have friends from there...they call it ''the 'brook''

Confucius - Believe me, you really DON'T want to get me started on this. I'll limit my comments to the following: Alcolholics Anonymous doesn't have any better track record for encouraging people to stop drinking than any other method, including people who simply decide to stop drinking on their own and follow through on their decision. The disease model of alcoholism is not accepted by everyone. The methods espoused by AA, such as the idea that a person is powerless over their drinking and need to give control over their lives to some sort of higher authority, can be damaging to people who already have self-esteem problems and don't take so well to having their fragile egos torn down so dependence on a group can be substituted for dependence on one's self. Support groups that bolster a person's self esteem rather than damaging it, and that help a person to be responsible for one's own actions rather than giving that control over to a group, can be quite helpful for some people.

Clas - the line is "fly down to Muzzwellbrook"; we've talked about that here before. And opera is not pretentious; it just tends to involve highly dramatic stories accompanied by appropriately dramatic music.

Hey Alphonso!

Thankyou for your support. Maybe I did show my ass. Sorry.

No I do not drag my wife around the house by her hair! Fishing

and playing ball make me a caveman or something? My wife is with

me as I am with her when she plays. Our son loves to fish. So

give me a break on the barbarian shit. Now you have forced me to

post again. Hey maybe this could turn into something? Bye Y'all

LIPA? Liverpool Institute for the Performing Arts.

McCartney is/was a major benefactor, but other large endowments have been withdrawn and he appears to have reached the limits of his generosity.

Ancient Chinese proverb -

He who make jokee about AA probably need meeting himself...

I've spent the past few days experimenting with various neurological drugs in an attempt to discover my "switching" tendencies, whereas I appear reasonably 'normal' to most folks at home and on the street, and then suddenly switch to a raving lunatic, spewing forth curses of Nordic origin....there seems to be a few associated nerves that, when stimulated, trigger an overload in emotional display, whoever irrational or correct they may be. I'm under 'test' mode now, so I don't know if.....

"Fucking Clas, you idiot - you can't even spell pompous until someone corrects you, and your pompousity is SOOOOOOOO unfounded, you fucking moron, whereas you don't even know which schools to send your somewhat talented little boy. I bet someone could sell you a piano with 87 keys, and you wouldn't know the differnce, you pug of a human, pissing fool, you"

....I will go in and out of any ramblings while I post here on a quiet Sunday morning in New York City.

ygk

Jesus, he don't have to fill me in.

So instead; "Edd, can you fill me in bla bla bla..."

Thought for the Day:

"Don't empower the lack of being."

Edd: Can you fill us in on that music school Paul McCartney founded?

"Hoops--welcome, but there is already a Hoops! who is one of the Venerable Troika of Dandom. Maybe there'd be less confusion if you had another nick."

Let's see if you have the guts to ignore that bullshit. Keep your handle man. That woman wants control. Just ignore her.

Hell, you gyus know about me, but at 4:30Am I have my Jamiacan roommate (one of the best friends) knowing 'My Old School' note for note

lord he lves that song

this is it for me, thank you for your patience, no more posts...peace

RubyBaby - pretentious is the word, pompous, is that an English word too? Sorry, that's what I mean. Which leads me to another dear of friend -

JW Malibu - did you hear about the AA-group you have there in Malibu? 67 actors and 1 (one) drivers license.

Yeah! Thanks, the Truth was out there!

I bought that green book you have yesterday. And yes, no 7 in the F#-chord, wrong of me, that would sound shit. Did you read the Black Friday lyrics in that book? Listen to what it says:

"I fly down to my swell brook".

Maybe that's the right line?

And this Yes-thing, their music is pretentious, like opera, uhhh.

But it was a long time ago I listened to them, early seventies I think (while they still could stand up while playing), I WAS a real fan so don't kill me. Are they still alive doing their old routin? Oh gosh. with castratosinging too. Spare me.

Geena, hi. Hope everything is fine. Me, in good mood? Well I don't know about that.

I have a very steady temper. Always pissed.

I partied with Donny last night and he said he'd check out this site if I posted so I am.

Hi Don! Call me, ok? Is this really the best way to contact you or was Walter fibbing?

Giving the Stained Dress to Mother,

Rosetta

Question: What do you call a worm on Viagra?
Answer : A nail.

Jeez, am I the only sober one here? I'll drive home.

ygk--I'm holding you to that drinkie when I come up next.

fezo--now listen my boy, do we have to have a whole nother DanFest a la #2 to remind you what wiggle means? Say, you can send me deepfezothoughts anytime.

Stranger--Are you OK? Capitals? I'll let you know if there's any news, or if I have any epiphanies of alphabetization.

Ruby--Our periods must be in synch. That must have been part of why I was lurking....

steveV--hell, I WISH I could join you!

Mu--I just live your typos.

Geena--Just had to show her California, didya? How you gonna keep her down on the farm.... Thinking a lot of you, girlfriend. Say, if a phone is ringing in the desert and no one is there to hear it....

Hoops--welcome, but there is already a Hoops! who is one of the Venerable Troika of Dandom. Maybe there'd be less confusion if you had another nick.

Walleye--come on, if you're not part of the problem you're part of the solution.

Nada--I got it.

Alta--Actually, things are NOT going well downstate. They virtually just put up a CLOSED sign east of 95. The Tar River didn't even crest until a couple of days ago. The damage is enormous, and it'll be another several days before anybody really knows how bad it really is. We sent a couple of nurses down to help, as have other groups at this end of the state, which didn't even get a drop of rain. (Compared to the nurses, doctors are pretty useless) Agriculture is about wiped out; the only possible upside is that some of those horrendous hog factories have been washed out and may not be replaced.

Re: Aja docu--did anyone see it on Canadian TV? And did anyone go to the Euro site mentioned in the Digest for tape/ DVD of it? I tried but couldn't get it to let me order one. If anyone can get it, get me one and I'll pay you back. Please.

Listened to AiA for the first time in a long time on a car trip today. LOVE how they did SIS. That great surprise horn break. Among other things.

in a fitting piece of Dan-like irony, the exiled team from flooded Greenville came from 20 pts down to defeat a team called the Hurricanes...now I'll get drunk

PS Wally, I don't know about the rest of the GB community, but I only come here when I am drunk.

I think we all know DF & WB don't give a shit who we are or what we think - that's why we talk to each other - and it's part of why we like Don and Walt in the first place!!!

Bartender, I'll have another Black Cow, please

Q,"burp........"

Wow Nada, you were definately over my head on that one !!

Actually,I like the ant thing- when I was young and free to expand my mind, I used to see Yes and close my eyes and imagine myself an ant within a giant colony, I think I recall.

Of course your free to express yourself with regard to the Dan- that's why we're all here- even egomaniacs like myself.

El Supremo - that MCA gold disc is pretty common and somewhat on the bright side and overly hot in presentation, but does have a few unique and worthy renderings on it.

I have to say IMHO the latest remaster series are very worthwhile having now really had time tofully absorb them, especially -in order- Countdown(bongos brought up front,etc. makes this mix the best I've yet heard), CBAT( similar qualities), Katy(mild improvements), Pretzel(does anyone detect anything worthwhile on this remix??- other than the expanded liner notes)

Now they just need to release the newly remastered series on vinyl and have DCC produce it !!!!! (hint,hint Don & Walt)

I'm reinvigorating my call for the Dan to use the DTS system for their upcoming tour(?)....... give us (near) studio quality sound guys !!!!!!!!

takin' my Big Black Cow and gettin' outa here.....

Q

Hello DanFanDom!!

Well, I thought I would tell you I visited a music store here and found "A Decade of Steely Dan" pressed on an MCA label in 24-K gold CD format. Haven't seen this one before, Q.

Anyway, my choices for new players for Walt and Don would be Steve Cole, Saxaphone----among others.

Additionally, Gil Parris on the guitar. He has a George Benson type of style but is very versatile. You might want to check out his CD, "It's A Lie" which is exceptional.

Then, there is always Joe Sample, Cornelius Bumpus, Aurie Ambrose, et. al for the other positions.

So, I see some of the oldsters are coming back and posting, and I hope you are having one fine one, as I drink another beer.

Cheers!

ES

P.S.: JustKatyDanFan, my wife, I love and miss you greatly darlin----hugs and kisses, HSRD.

Thanks Hutch, I was going to post that phone number later, but I see you got to it first. I watched the same thing last night, amazing, huh?

Off to the airport with child in tow....see ya'll in a week!

YGK .. Yes is largely from the UK. You must be gettting them confused with Rush. Another ridiculously pretentious band, but I dig both of 'em anyway.

But none of them hold a candle to King Crimson.

StAl

Nada: ....but you see, Yes and No ARE opposites in many ways, besides the obvious. For example:

For one, No is a local NYC punk band, playing thrash hardcore around the seedier clubs.
Their lead singer "Spit" was arrested for disorderly conduct, trying to enter a bar at 4:30 am (after closing time). Apparently, he wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

Yes is largely fron Canada (right?) playing stadiums and large clubs. And their nightlife is a bit calmer, eh?

ygk

I just found this site today, and I think it's awesome! I may be behind in the news, but is there any info regarding the new album that's supposed to come out this year? If so, please let me know; it would be very much appreciated. Thanx.

The Mojave Desert phone booth is not just a legend. It's for real all right. There was a story on NBC News last night about it. Most isolated phone booth and all that.
The # is 760-733-9969
Found this web site by typing "desert phone booth" in Dogpile.
www.cardhouse.com/g/moj/

Hutch

Now that you've had your fun throwing stones at me I invite you to read my orginal post again. I made up the fictitious band, "No" to sum up my feelings about SD. I never said that "Yes" and "No" were SIMILAR. I said that the story of "No" was FAMILIAR--as in FAMILIAR to those of you who are also familiar with Steely Dan.

And Q, who says that I can't express my feelings about Steely Dan in any manner I choose? I like Yes. I've seen them 3 times. If I was talking about Yes why would I say they cancelled a tour and were holed up in Manhattan? Steely Dan cancelled a tour. Not Yes. I am writing in English aren't I?

And one more thing. If you're not standing on the shoulders of giants you're under their feet. Steely Dan is huge. I feel like a tiny ant with big headphones when I listen to their music. Sorry you didn't get it.

Giving Up Poetry,

Nada

Wally:

Word.

Clas ~ You're correct regarding the "Black Friday" chord F#m/D, but there's no 7th (at least on the original)...you'll see that the chord is properly notated in vocal section of the score (www.thekatbox.com/casellastudio/blackfri.htm), the top of which is Michael McDonald on the 5th (C#)~ not 7th. You are entirely right in noting that the guitar chord notation for that particular change is completely out to lunch, kinda' like the "e minor" notation on the intro to "Rikki..." ~ re: JacksonB - sorry, don't know the man, but we've crossed paths on more than one occasion out in the surf, but I don't see him out in the water much any more...On a final note, you should give Yes another listen, perhaps to "Close to the Edge" with an open mind ~ you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Herm ~ There was an article about the same time in the now defunct "Musician", where WB adressed his "sequenced" approach to 11TOW...it's pretty cool what one can create with today's latest and greatest toys ~ sometimes those sequenced demos end up being the real thing. Michal McDonald tells of how he sequenced "Sweet Freedom" to use as a guide track for a full horn/rhythm section, and couldn't recapture the certain funky groove he'd sequenced in the demo, so they ended up using the sequenced bed, with its signature synth-brass hooks. Monster hit for McDonald, and not a bad song to boot, IMHO!

Q ~ Thanks for setting me straight on my case of mistaken bungalows in the Florida area...used to spend summers with the granny in New Port Richie way back when. You have a great weekend as well...and yes, NO one can play a Rickie like the Squiremeister!

Geena ~ That phonebooth is a SoCal urban legend...in fact, we used to partake in certain mood enhancers and attempt to find it, usually ending up in Joshua Tree sitting one some huge rock waiting for the sun to rise...have fun in Sonoma, good time of year to go!

Dr. ~ Great analysis of the Yes/ABBA-Meatloaf connection! The ABBA/Weber is on the money, and I concur on the bombast that IS Jim Steinman, who in fact DID have an ill-fated solo album as you indicated. I enjoy producing other people just for the hell of it, and I'm working with this guy originally from New Jersey who ALSO has that pernicious habit of inserting tempo changes (not time signature, but tempo) about 6 million times in every song! Now Zappa could get away with because his music was just so interesting, but Steinman (the "Boss" is another guilty party) does it for dramatic effect, and it just comes out sounding melodramatic/schmaltzy and an almost-Weberesque kinda' way ~ It ends up sounding like "Rocky Horror...", and you need the theatrics (or video imagery) and/or Meatloafs to complete the picture! I thank my lucky stars for Cubase ~ makes those tempo changes are a snap...

Have a great weekend!

Dr. Mu - I'm relieved to learn that things are going well in North Carolina; that was one horrendous storm they suffered through.

Despite his many shortcomings, I think that Meatloaf was appropriate for his role in Rocky Horror Picture Show, which was where I first encountered him. I didn't know he was supposed to sing Total Eclipse of the Heart - that certainly explains the overblown nature of the song.

So Wally, if you find this whole venture so pointless, why did you bother to post? Looks like you wasted your keystrokes.

Hey big WALLY...

"Go fishing, play ball, hell get drunk..."

Damn, man! Do you drag your woman around the house by her hair also?

It always cracks me up to see someone new showing their ass on the GB. I can dig Wally's position, but for chrissakes this forum is more than Steely Dan talk. Thank god or I'd have pulled the plug on this thing years ago.

Geena...

About that phone booth. I too have heard of this thing. Chalked it up to urban folklore. Would love to know what the number is. Next time I'm in the Mohave, I'll be sure to answer.

Re: Susan Tedeshci. Thumbs down on that one. Over-rated, oversung retread blues trying hard to sound like someone who's trying HARD to sing like Janis Joplin. Being backed by Stevie Ray's old band doesn't help one bit.

StAl

I to am a rabid Steely Dan fan however, I will not waste my time sifting through a bunch of trash talk that you people think is interesting. Are you trying to outdo one another? I'm a bigger fan than you? Just shut up and keep listening. He said this or that, who cares? If you think for a minute that walter becker or donald fagen give two shits who you are you're nuts!
I dig there music,got all the albums,I've seen them live etc...
But let's not become ridiculous with it O.K. Do something more constructive with your time, like teach your kid something new.
Go fishing, play ball, hell get drunk! But leave this crazy infatuation with these two dudes alone! Bye Y'all

place

bolus

Geena: Sorry to hear about your experience with FEMA. It's up to the governor of the state to initiate the process - sounds like Pataki (I've drawn a blank - or are you in Mass.?) dropped the ball. Anyway, thank goodness Jim Hunt along with other governors of the Southeast declared their states disaster areas BEFORE the storm hit...and started the paperwork with FEMA and contacted the White House. The floods are truly of biblical proportions...remember Bangladesh around '70?

I have family who reside in Greenville. Most escaped when (you'll love this) the East Carolina football team tried to leave town on buses (the airport is underwater). Jim Hunt called in the state trooper and engineers to clear a tortuous route of highways winding down to Columbia, SC. They had to pump out 4 ft of water and palce sand over the drowned roads. *This is essential as the patency of the roads is uncertain after being underwater for a prolonged period - the beds wash away, soften or dissolve - sinkholes will form paroxysmally as well*

Anyway, a caravan of refugees from an area without power, clean water, or food queued behind the football team as they all made a slow parade out of the sea of marsh and muck. By the time the Pirates had picked the bones of Lou Holtz' young men, they would have required Blackbeard's ship to return (if they had wanted to actually do that) to Greenville as the roads resubmerged beneath the wine dark sea.

Instead, the team stayed in South Carlina all week wandering like Moses in the desert I suppose (all things are relative). They are preparing, proabably at some high school field somewhere, to play the University of Miami in Raleigh this Saturday (the shiw must go on!) as a "guest" of NC State. Ironically, many refugees have camped out by the beach this week where running water and power are back on!

Clas: Truly a bizarro comparison between Yes, Abba, and Meatloaf. I suppose the music from the 3 artists could be viewed as overblown, but in so far different ways. I could see a likeness with ELP, early Genesis, King Crimson, even Jethro Tull. Yes - a group with a lead singer posessing a trumpet-like voice from the art-rock school. They played, but open-ended produced "songs" with long jams...I read once that most if not all (I doubt this is true for Bruford) unable to sight-read. Pop was the last thing on their minds.

Abba seems to have been led by 2 meticulous pop songwriters who fancied themselves as Andrew Lloyd Weber of the top 40. Their emphasis in the studio was on very clean and crafted *commercial* pop product.

Meatloaf was the alter ego and on again off-again voice for Jim Steinman. Steinman writes unbelievably over-melodramatic angst-ridden American twisted teen experience pop...like Grease with a BIG blous of estrogen and testosterone. With the over the top production - it's stuff that only works with the frenetic larger than life Texas-size talent that is Meatloaf. His unique brand of camp that works in a most amazing way...apart each is a shadow - anybody claim to have have Steinman's solo album? ...and doesn't Total Eclipse of the Heart (Bonnie Tyler) sound dated and silly without Meat, who was scheduled to belt that one out before a nervous breakdown.

Geena: Sorry to hear about your experience with FEMA. It's up to the governor of the state to initiate the process - sounds like Pataki (I've drawn a blank or are you in Mass.?) dropped the ball. Anyway, thank goodness Jim Hunt along with other governors of the southeast declared there states disaster areas BEFORE the storm hit...and started the paperwork with FEMA and contacted the White House. The floods are truly of biblical proportions...remember Bangladesh around '70?

I have family who reside in Greenville. Most escaped when (you'll love this) the East Carolina football team tried to leave town on buses (the airport is underwater). Jim Hunt called in the state trooper and engineers to clear a tortuous route of highways winding down to Columbia, SC. They had to pump out 4 ft of water and sand over the drowned roads. *This is essential as the patency of the roads is uncertain after being underwater for a prolonged period - the beds wash away, soften or dissolve - sinkholes will form paroxysmally as well*

Anyway, a caravan of refugees from an area withoout power, clean water, or food queued behind the football team as they mad a slow parade out of the sea of marsh and muck. By the time the Pirates had picked the bones of Lou Holtz' young men, they would have required Blackbeard's ship to return (if they had wanted ti actually do that) to Greenville as the roads resubmerged beneath the wine dark sea.

Instead, the team stayed in South Carlina all week wandering like Moses in the desert I suppose (all things are relative). They are preparing, oribably at some high school field somewhere, to play the University of Miami in Raleigh this Saturday (the shiw must go on!) as a "guest" of NC State. Ironically, many refugees have camped out by the beach where running water and power are back on!

Clas: Truly a bizarro comparison between Yes, Abba, and Meatloaf. I suppose the music from the 3 artists could be viewed as overblown, but in so far different ways. I could see a likeness with ELP, early Genesis, King Crimson, even Jethro Tull. Yes a group with a lead singer with a trumpet-like voice from the art precise, but open structured production with long jams...I read once that most if not all (I doubt this is true for Bruford) unable to sight-read. Opo is the last thing on their minds.

Abba seems to have been led by 2 meticulous pop songwriters who fancied themselves as Andrew Lloyd Weber of the toop 40. Thier emphasis in the studio was on very clean pop product.

Meatloaf was the alter ego and on again off-again voice for Jim Steinman. Steinman writes unbelievably over-melodramatic angst-ridden American twisted teen experience pop...like Greas with a BIG blous of estrogen and testosterone. With the over the top production - it's stuff that only works with the frenetic larger than life Texas-size talent that is Meatloaf. His unique brand of camp that works in a most amazing way...apart each is ablsolutely nothing - anybody claim to have have Steinman's solo album? ...and doesn't Total Eclipse of the Heart (Bonnie Tyler) sound dated and silly without Meat, who was scheduled to belt this one out before a nervous breakdown.

Fezo - I have unearthed Dark Side from its lair (it was in a tape case under a piece of furniture; I guess I hadn't listened to it in a while) and am now listening to it - what a marvelous recording! I love those voices that talk and laugh under the music. That bootleg recording sounds fascinating; like the SD bootlegs, it provides an enlightening glimpse into the creative process that helps the listener to appreciate the final product even more. And many thanks to those who have mentioned their favorite PF recordings; you've given me some good hints for what to buy when I have some more money.

I have read that "Reeling in the Years" is on the soundtrack of Kevin Costner's new baseball film, which is supposed to be a real howler. I wish an SD tune would be used in a movie that is actually worthy of its presence!

Anyone heard of the phone booth located smack in the middle of the Mohave desert? I understand it never stops ringing, I'd like to go there just to see who calls.

Rubybaby: I only know Susan Lucci in the media sense. Embarrased to say, but i finally got hooked on soap operas, mainly hers. So, sorry I can't get you any of her clothing, but i'll be more than happy to write her a letter at Television City and put in your request.

Mu: I heard this evening on national news that all crops were wiped out in the floods. Glad to hear that Ole was not near any harm, but feeling bad for those who were. My turkey is in the freezer, has been for about a month. They're cheaper in the summer 'cuz it's too hot to cook them. If FEMA was as helpful as they were last year when we experienced the monsoons of June and our own rivers overfloweth, then these folks will be waiting for a while. I hope this is not the case.

TheStranger: I don't worry about her, she's pretty feisty. I just know that she's not dating anyone until she's 40! Wanna babysit sometime?

Nada: I'm not a fan of Yes, but I've hung out with a lot of performers. No biggie, they put their pants on the same way anyone else does. Not a flame, just a statement.

Clas: good to see you're in a good mood!

Leaving for California (Sonoma) tomorrow for a few days....take care everyone and behave while I'm gone.....

I am rather puzzled by Fagen's mispronunciation of the word "sleight" on Mr. Sam (for those who haven't heard the song, he pronounces it "slate"). Fagen has mispronounced French words on many occasions, but one would expect him to be able to pronounce English words, and you would think that he would have heard the phrase "sleight of hand" before. Is he mispronouncing it for effect, or what?

A while back, during my lurking vacation, someone mentioned listening to, and enjoying, the pre-Dan recordings. I enjoy them too; I'm listening to the Android Warehouse collection right now. They are interesting for historical purposes, since they provide early examples of musical ideas that D&W would use later. But I also find them enjoyable on their own merits; I like the more intimate sound, sort of like what I hear on those nefarious bootleg versions of songs. I also enjoy Fagen's singing - apparently he hadn't yet found the style of singing he would use later and so he experimented with a variety of styles. He sounds rough, often missing pitches, but he does show some good musical instincts and a warm, emotional singing style. It's ironic, I guess; here's a group that is known for their elegant, polished sound, and yet I find myself listening to these rough, early versions more often than I do the final product these days.

Maybe it's because I've known the final product for over 20 years now, so I like to hear the rougher versions of the songs I know and the early songs that never made it to the final version. These bare-bones recordings do demonstrate the excellence of the writing and Fagen's vocal skills, which, to my ears at least, tend to get sort of buried in the final versions. Yes, I do love the smooth perfection of the final versions, but these early ones are like the sketches for a great painting.

Fezo - I'm glad to learn that Peaches is still doing well. I bought YGTWILYTI from the cut-out bin at the Rockville branch many years ago. I was intrigued to notice that the jacket had the hole punched in it before the plastic wrap was added - I had thought that a record was marked as a cut-out by the store, but it looks like this happens at the factory (damn, I just noticed that the cats tore up the plastic wrap - oh, well, you can't keep anything perfect in a home with cats in it).

Yo JW Malibu !
Just for the record and not to draw some other innocent further into this tempest in a teapot, I believe in your response to NADA's flame just now, you were under the impression that it was "David in the FloridaRoom" who is a good guy who lives about 3 hours south of me in Florida, to whom you thought NADA was firing at.
I go by the "FLAROOM" moniker which could clearly be confused between myself and David.

I am Quentin- "Q", and I'm the "egomaniac" referred to in the NADA flame in question about which you were just posting.

I have to say that with regard to your attitudes about how people's "message board" syndrome, you practically took the words out of my mouth ! Have a great weekend, Sir.

Ruby, great take on Yes - This will be my last post on them since this is the Dan board(I will likely uncontollably say something after having seen the shows though)

Now.... onward and downward as they say........

Clas, remember when I recently posted that you said something quite astute(Fagan as "character"), well...... you just said the most uninformed,illconcieved thing I have ever heard from someone who considers themsevles such an afficianado/Nordic musical genius regarding Yes. POMPOUS - and you LIVE on the Steely Dan board??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you compare them to Abba~!!!!!!!!!!!! and....Meatloaf?????
your not even close to relevant genre's (nor TALENT!!) parameters - by a long shot. And have you ever read and understood their lyrics; they are the antithesis of pompousness.

Oh and NADA, what is this about "Yes,... they have their own agenda" stuff???? - what good band doesn't !
Gee, I don't think Steely Dan "has their own agenda".........no,
not for one minute.

Thank,you very little,

Q
Now off to enjoy my family, hope your all doing the same - I know BigFan is !

Mitch: I think I saw Susan Tedeschi at Farm Aid a couple of weeks ago. But it was hot and I was hyperventilating at the prospect of seeing Deena Carter in person so my memory is kinda hazy.

Alt: Peaches will never die. Twenty years it was supposedly in bankruptcy and about to go under but last time I was down in Richmond the same store was still standing. Dark Side is great, sounds just as good the 154th time, as it did the first. I heard this amazing bootleg live version of it once . . . back in the 1970's, when bands were working on new product, they would tour alot to try different versions of the material (what a concept, if only Donald and Walter would take note) . . . anyway the boot was pre release of Dark Side with totally different takes on the songs. The one I still remember is "Time", it was even faster than the studio release, but without the lengthy percusion intro, and with Richard Wright on lead vocal.

I'd love to find a copy of that tape today. Who knows, maybe McNade will offer it for sale on EBay.

Ruby: I don't understand half of what you say in response to my posts but you still crack me up

Edd: You are correct, sir. Flaunt the Imperfection is now available as an English import from most CD e-venues. Last time I checked only the compliations, What Price Paradise and Wishful Thinking were available. CDUniverse and a couple of others offer FtI for < $15. I could not find "Diary of a Hollow Horse" (I'm really fond of the 8 tracks Walter produced here and had a surprisingly good sounding commercial tape) on CD, but did see an offer from an English vinyl e-store: "Vinyl Tap."

Hey All,

I was going through some of my old Jazziz magazines looking for an article about Pat Metheny. While looking through the contents page, I found that there was an interview with Walter about 11TOW. It's pretty interesting. He talks about how he decided to go with a 'do-it-yourself' approach to making the music, instead of, "...spending millions of dollars and thousands of hours trying to fly musicians in...It's stupid. This is what we spent the whole 70's doing. I'm not going to do that again." He was referring to, among other things, using computers and drum machines in favor of high priced talent to replicate it in the studio.

I checked, and there is no way to view the achives on line, but you can order back issues at the Jazziz website. The article is in the Feb. '95 issue, with Pat Metheny onm the cover.

If I don't post again today, hope you all have great weekends.

Later,

Herm

Zeke, I'm jelous! I'd be willing to pay twice that.

The last time I saw Yes was in '78. They came down from the ceiling in a spaceship doing StarTrooper. There was lazers, dry ice, mobile sound - the works.(It was the 70s - they had to!) After that, it was all music, which was more awesome than any special effects! I think they've continued to improve over the years. I love the way they move from rhythm to rhythm within a song, so smooth and yet so dynamic.

Out of all the people I know that are into Yes, so many of them are runners. What's up with that? And they all have a sense of humor that's "different" from the boring norm. No one can make me laugh like my Yes-fan friends. (except my Yes/SD friends.)

Clas: what's pompos? It's not in my svensk/english dictionary.
It looks suspiciously like pompous. As in pompous ass. Tell me it isn't so!

an actual Steely Dan post:

I saw an oil painting of Walter Becker for sale on ebay in the general music section. I forget what it's going for. Anyone else see it? I'm not crazy about it...

Then I saw a poster of WB and DF standing in a hallway. This one's great! I'm not a collector of such stuff, or I'd buy it.

rb

"Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. The award aims to recognize the contributions of people who have had a significant impact over the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll, according to the Hall's literature."

Why does Paul McCartney's solo work fit these criteria more than The Dan? If he were never in The Beatles, would he have made it in?

RubyBaby - yeah!

Geena - yeah!

JW malibu - cool bunch of grapes but I don't think the D#m7 is right. It don't sound right. I bet 1000 bucks that the right chord is a F#m7, the bass plays D#. Listen to the liverecord, it sounds like the band disagrees too.

If you know Jackson Browne I'll change my mind.

YES was not much of a cool band. Very pompöst. Like ABBA and Meatloaf. But I liked that song, ehhh, what the, well, "Roundabout". Cool bassgroove.

never knew about the yes fans here. Hey, I'm no cheapeaux, esp. when it comes to music. I've spent more money on bad music than I care to talk about. BUT, YES is charging a cool $60.00 for a gen adm ticket. Hey. I'm goin'.
I did catch the Stevie Winnwood show at HOB. That was a great show. I got in to the bar a little late, but it was great. If your in Nawlins' and want to see a show at HOB, go early and eat dinner on the "patio". Usually a home grown blues band playing while you eat, great warmup for any show there. Oh yeah, the Abita Purple Haze on tap is a must.
Where Y'at Doc? How's the garden?
Ole: Roger that. Cajun french is a bitch.
The Rockies were great. Good backdrop for good music. It's a cool thing when music suprises you in a positive way.

Nada ~ Why the flame...because I mentioned the fact that I've had the pleasure to hang out with Jon & Chris a couple of times? So fuckin' what...a LOT of people have, and I've got friends who are FAR more famous than Yes, and ya' know what ~ they're just *people* for the most part, that's all. If you interpreted my mention of it as "name dropping" to somehow validate my own "egomania" (one word/btw), you're so far off the mark it's funny...sorry, I don't need to go on a message board to do that, buddy. I'm a firm believer that actions and accomplishments speak far louder that words. Also, David was right on, your initial obtuse "Yes-slam" was dripping with sarcasm, and no amount of backpedalling is gonna' change that...

David ~ Agreed, they (Steve & Chris) insanely incredible musicians ~ it boggles the mind just to watch them play!

"Flaunt..." and other China Crisis titles are available at CDnow.

scarFs

Steve V: Damn, my China Crisis tapes have disappeared into thin air. Any idea how to get copies of the CDs? Are they on import at a venue somewhere?

"1000 rock experts" I thought the last two words were mutually exclusive. Isn't this their 3rd try? Clapton is a given. My preference would be to see Dan along with Earth Wind and Fire, the O'Jays, Richie Valens, and Bonnie Raitt accepted. Aerosmith??? how about letting their scars in...

NADA- read your own post - no derision in it , no undertone? give yourself a break.
And where's my egomania ? Atleast I have the guts to identify myself unlike weasels like yourself.

The Squire part was a reference to someone else who got the name wrong-no big deal- and I didn't say YOU..."so get it right fuckhead" !

You're an edgy type aren't you - get an ego , and some self esteem and maybe you'll settle down.

Oh and the rhyme thing? what's that- are you an aspiring rapper?
Atleast you can still quote Dan lines fairly effectively.

Peace baby,

Q

Rock n Roll Hall of Shame round 2:
http://www.livedaily.com:80/archive/1999/9909/wk4/Clapton,_Queen,_Steely_Da.html

About 1,000 voters will pick eight each. Nominees getting more than half the vote get in.

For u Dave Matthews fans - buy 1 get one free:
http://www.livedaily.com:80/archive/1999/9909/wk4/Dave_Matthews_Offers_Down.html

Altamira: the early Floyds; "See Emily play" and "Arnold Layne" are materpieces by Syd Barrett. I never cared much for them afterwards though "Careful with that axe, Eugene" is a great song title.

....I think D&W were much more into "No".....ask any one of their session guys........

Q- my friend, I read (in the 70's) that Don and Walt were never fans of Yes and really didn't care much for them.

Q,

You Schoolyard Superman! Smashin' the backboards, you're Jungle Jim, again.

BTW, I made no comments about Chris Squire so get it right, fuckhead.

U2, Malibu. I made no disparaging remarks about your personal pals, "Yes", so go find some other excuse to flaunt your ego mania.

Altamira: My favorite Pink Floyd album is "Animals" because I am one.

Nada

add me to the lis of psychos who've had dreams about the new album-----was listening to 'Cash Only Island' remixed with a very quadrophonic sounding guitar solo over it! IT SOUNDED FUCKING AWESOME!...but then i woke up........are we talking mind control or what!

re: China Crisis 'Flaunt lp' - One of Becker's best productions...still sounds fresh today!

re: Asian 'Dan fans- now that I live in Singapore are there any 'Dan fans who want to get together in Singyporey at the Century End??!!--Good King Richard? any chance you can fly up from Australia for a Guiness?

just a thought ( am I the only onw who doesn't have end of the millenium party plans yet!?)

Speaking of bands from the good old days, I read something about Pink Floyd a while ago - I have a tape of Dark Side of the Moon around here that I listen to now and then - any other Floyd fans or detractors out there? (posting police alert - yes, I've posted three times in one night, but I was on a lurking vacation for a while so I think I've earned the right.)

Maj (c) - It seems that you are one competent bass player; way to go!

I had a DREAM last week about trying to ask Joe Jackson why he played the Dan songs he played at Joe's in NYC a month ago.

In this DREAM, I wasn't at the show, it was happenening after the show, away from the venue, can't tell where though.

Jackson was being difficult, and making me jump through all sorts of "hoops" before providing any answers. At one point, I had to hold handfuls of broken glass, the small bits like from a shattered windshield (probably from the Whack photo shoot... those fucking bastards...).

In the end, I don't think I ever talked with Joe Jackson, he gave commands thru his *handlers*, and I did NOT learn the rationale for Joe Jackson's selections. Just the handful of glass.

SO if you care to hazard a guess or maybe you DID talk to Joe Jackson and he told you, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

CHINA CRISIS on Muzak....

Ya know, the arrangements in "Bigger Punch I'm Feeling" stood up well in a muzak version I heard Tues. morning at a diner in New Jersey.

Plugged in my bass at a music store today to try out some heavier bass amps. Banged out Chain Lightnin LOUD. I must be playing well enough now that the dude recognized it. Any MIDI's of Chain would be appreciated.

Thanks.

maj©

Apparently at least one Washington Post columnist is a Dan fan - Tony Kornheiser entitled his column about his 20-year anniversary at the Post "Reeling From the Years."

Yo, "NADA"- in lieu of civility - EAT SHIT -
your mind is obviously only capable of handling ant guano.

And you think you "get" Steely Dan ????????????? Doesn't reconcile pal.......go to the Metallica board for greater satisfaction.

PS it's Steve Howe- not Chris Howe- and Steve is not only the best Yes guitarist - he is one of the eminent guitarists of ALL time !....... ask WB & DF !!!!!!!!!

PPS Chris Squire is one of THE eminent bassists of ALL time too........got that "NADA" ?

Q
Happily a Big Fish in a small pond within a Giant rain forest

Hutch - So Peaches is still around? There was one around here about ten years ago; I thought the chain had folded.

Dr. Mu and Edd - Fagen's in good company. The only formal musical education George Gershwin ever had was a summer course, Elementary Orchestration, that he took at Columbia University in 1921.

YGK - I've heard Wynton Marsalis's classical playing but not his jazz playing. He certainly seems to have a great deal of technical prowess, but I can understand where it would be hard for someone to excel in both classical and jazz since they are such different musical genres. Perhaps he'd do better if he just played classical music since that seems to be where his greater skills lie.

Sociable Hermit - Regarding honorary degrees, Donald Fagen was awarded an honorary doctorate from Bard a few years ago. But he's certainly done enough good work to deserve it, as has Cosby, and it at least it was granted by a school he actually has ties to (graduated from it, donates money to it, sometimes attends graduations) rather than one that's just trying to get some attention by awarding a well-known person an honorary degree.

JW Malibu - I didn't know that Wynton Marsalis had written an oratoria - I'll have to look for it. Has it been recorded? He sure has been keeping busy with a lot of worthwhile projects! It would seem to me, at least, that his work in promoting jazz offsets his lack of ability in playing it and may provide a more lasting benefit for jazz musicians and listeners than a searingly fantastic playing style would.

F#maj - Oh, yes, now I know who Gary Brooker is. Yes, I have enjoyed his singing. My favorite Procol Harum song is Whiter Shade of Pale - I really like that instrumental bridge based on J.S. Bach's Air on a G String.

y'all can go the the comedycentral.com site, click on the Daily Show, and then click on 'Headlines,' then they'll show the bit on RealPlayer...the Dan bit is at the very end...funny, but they ain't tellin us anything new

Did any of y'all see the bit about The Dan on The Daily Show last night?

Montreal television tonite: Channel 32 at 8:00pm, Behind the music:Aja

KD,
Thanks for the explanation and not flaming back. We need more of that kind of civility around here. My apologies for wronging you.

Geena,
I hope by now you've learned not to worry much about your daughter. Most of us have screwed up parents and there are very few Charlie Mansons around anyway. Get a good babysitter cause if she's not chaperoned she'll get a bad rep.

Ruby: Sure, send it along whenever - .jpgs are great for viewing, or you have the address in Manhattan, right?

ygk

JW: Whoa, you know it's got to be...gonna *try* the keys at home for those bars...chord slut city

Zeke: where y'at

Geena: Glad you're still around. Ole is far, far away from the flooding plains...the electricity is finally back on for many locals from Wilson and Rocky Mount east, but water/sewage is out. FEMA is doing all they can - they helped a lot of folks in this area of Texas 5 years ago with major flooding (18 inches in 24 hrs). They're so important as many don't have flood insurance...but can't replace the known 41 victims. Buy your turkey for Thanksgiving now (if you can find one) and put her in the deep freezer

Clas: either you're a fetus sprinting in the womb or you're in vfib. One blow to the sternum in the right place and you'll be OK - if you miss...

Ruby: Didn't she throw her clothes into the audience when finally awarded the Emmy?...no, wait that was the soccer player...and thank the lord - now the coeds are now jogging in sports bras

fezo: Lawyers in Love with its quirkiness is one of my faovite JB songs - of course, then I go for the jumpy Somebody's Baby and the somber Pretender

Olé: The HOS(F) could use a little wisecracking after last year's all too earnest induction - Springsteen was way too happy to be there...or then again

Clas: Hot damn! Jackson Brown came to my mind the first second I saw those lyrics! But mr cleverclas had to tell me how hard it was and I took you seriously. It could never be as easy as Downtown - so I sang those words into another song. You're finding out how gullible I can be, which is a great source of amusement to those who know.

ygk: I thought I felt some Right Side, uptight, high energy vibes melt into a nyc coolness with a touch of laid-back Left back in August! All I could do was put on some old Billy Joel tapes and sing NY NY in the shower. Why didn't you tell me?
Btw, the old man is starting to paint again. Can I send you a sample sometime?

Oleander: Glad U R fine! re:faith - I hear ya. I was just venting - hellacious pms day.
Of course they aren't in the RandRHOF. They don't fit perfectly into the category of R&R and to make matters worse I'll bet they never schmoozed the "right people". But I have FAITH that their day will come...

Geena: You know Susan Lucci? I'm about her size - can you get me some hand-me downs? Her wardrobe is outtasight! Pride is no obstacle here.

fezo: I can speak fluent attorneytalk. Your defense is simple but brilliant so I can't prove a thing. I know that no one can list more cases of wiggle than you. I can't help but smile.

rb

Stranger:

the dude called me a "moron" and a "fuckhead" for no bloody reason that I can figure out. Never even mentioned him in any of my posts, and all the sudden I'm drawn into this pathetic flaming war on the Internet, all the testosterone won't let me stop, I won't even get into these things about bball. His apropos of nothing assholity struck me as odd.

I have always loved lurking and for those times when I have nothing to say or don't understand the direction that this guestbook is heading towards, lurking can be lots of fun. So if you think, I'm not around, I could be. I have found an hour in my life, (mostly in the evenings to just sit at the keyboard, check email and lurk away.....sometimes, I even post! Someone help me, I need some adult interaction!

TheStranger: The only night feedings I have experienced since her royal highness has graced the abode is when we took her home from the hospital. She wasn't familiar with her surroundings and would be up most of the night crying. In my utter frustration, I would grab a container of my favorite flavor Ben & Jerry's from the freezer or microwave a bag of popcorn and proceed to feed myself which is better than tearing all of my hair out of my head. Oh wait, did you mean HER nightfeedings?

Clas: I hope your heart rate and bp are not what you say, or you could be dead now. All is fine here, thanks.

Ole: I've been thinking about you for the past couple of days. Glad to see you were on vacation and doing ok. Thought for a moment the you were involved in flood waters. Nice description of RRHOF.

Fezo: jelloquake = wiggle

It's Khorashev...and khorashev.com can be accessed through www.yesworld.com...

oleander,
thanks for checking. someday the ship will come in?

geena,
night feedings over, i trust?

kd,
you have to get on the net to express your bitterness? what's the matter? drive away all your loved ones with your sparkling personality?

Clas ~ Here's the score to the turnaround of "Black Friday" - www.thekatbox.com/casellastudio/blackfri.htm

YGK ~ Great poster anecdote! Lookin' forward to hearing some ivory tinkling on your part...I bet you play like a madman!

Nada ~ Yeah, the boys in Yes bring new meaning to the word "pretentious" with their lyrics, but ya' know what? The guys can play, IMHO...and you'd be surprised ~ they're actually pretty nice guys if you get a chance to know 'em, quite unlike their stage personas...very down to earth and funny, especially Chris.

Lars ~ Thanks for picking up my typo - yes, it is THE Steve Howe (not the coke-addled, Belinda Carlisle-dating former Los Angeles Dodger) playing...perhaps he'll do "Mood for a Day"

Also, check out www.koreshev.com - the kid is not only a monster multi-instrumentalist but a fine artist as well...

fezo - the album is underrated, my heart is overrated.

TODAY: HR 227 bpm, BP 99/19

YGK - look at this shit: "Do I have to teach you everything?........"

It must be "Do I have to teach you everything...?" Schneez.

Geena - hope everything is fine with the Golden One.

Clas: "Downtown" is from "Lawyers in Love", right? Very underrated album, I think. Title cut is pretty lame but I love "Tender is the Night" and "Cut It Away"

Ole: Welcome back! Was about to send you a deep thoughts email in an attempt to lure you back into the fold. You are right, though. Lurking has its merits.

Ruby: I must be getting old, i can't think of another context for wiggle.

Nada: I saw "No" was playing a gig at CBGB's gallery in the East Village this past summer. They were the featured band with "Imbeciles" and some band called "City Brats". The poster read

"NO
IMBECILES
and
CITY BRATS"

I heard the crowd waiting outside didn't know if they could enter the club or not, especially with those large imposing bouncers....

ygk

Oleander: thanx, I was beginning to think I was a sociable herm..., er, well, it can be lonely and isolating in the big city. Howzit goin' Doc? Everything OK with that guy named Floyd?

rubybaby - how's my favorite Hebron girl? I was on the left coast back in August - Newport Beach and up to SF for a few days gallery hunting. I looked, didn't see you...

Clas: like the answer to why a dog licks his genitals, I must correct you - AGAIN *sheesh*! - "downtown people GET to play a little louder because THEY CAN!!!!" Do I have to teach you everything?.....

ygk

Speaking of Yes, anybody heard of the band, No? Their story is quite familiar.

They only care about their own agenda. They write music about what the ants are doing under Tarzan's feet. They have a small group of devoted fans who alternately hate and love each other depending on the phase of the moon.

Oh, and they were going to tour but now they're not. And they're supposedly working on some new ant music but there's a leaf-cutter strike because of all the concrete in Manhattan.

Should I go on? In the words of my favorite band, "NO".

Zilch,

Nada One

Zeke - hi!

JW Malibu - you got the bok, please let me know.

RubyBaby - Thanks for joke, very funny. No, the song was "Downtown" with mister Jackson Browne;

downtown people got to play a little louder cause they're, downtown...

C

JVM - Chris Howe? That must be Steve Howe.... otherwise I agree with you

Well! That was kind of fun, and fresh--a lurking vacation! I see the appeal! Maybe now I'll try some bogus personae.

RB--I've got one word for you, and you should understand: faith. If there were advance orders for TNO I would have been on the list a long time ago.

Zeke--Hey, mon ami! Leave that talk shit alone! Rots your brain. How were the Rockies?

YGK--welcome back, man. You haven't changed a bit, but then neither has anyone else.

Herm--I'm with you on W. Marsalis. Scintillating and soulless.

OMIO--Fabulous paranoia. Thank you for more tossin' 'n' turnin' material.

L'etranger--I just checked. Nothing new. I have come to a certain place of peace about their interminable tweaking. I just spend a couple of hours each day rearranging all the reissues and compilations as a kind of Zen exercise. I think it may just carry me through.

Speaking of the R&RHOF, has anyone else been there? I actually loved it, but didn't get to attend as much as I might have without kids in tow. Number one, cool building with lots of light, juxtaposed with the underwhelming Cleveland cityscape. Number two, I thought it would be just a dusty pile of stupid artifacts, but I was wrong. There are a few, but I found most of them interesting and a very few downright gripping. I had an epiphanic moment staring at Otis Redding's black leather coat with the single worn button, and got dizzy reading Janis Joplin's letter home in which she described her voice as dated. And Jimi Hendrix's rabbit's foot, not to mention his guitar. There is a great video you see at the very beginning, without narration, which is a montage of how rock & roll came to be. And some pretty compelling videos of interviews. I missed a lot, though, and by God couldn't find a single mention of the Dan. Anybody else find any trace of them? I actually could visualize a stack of their tape recorders in the middle of the place, and mannequins of them in those shades with that organ guy in the background.

Time for another letter-writing campaign?

The current Yes tour lineup is:

Jon Anderson - vocs ~ essential
Chris Squire - bass ~ "" ""
Chris Howe - guit ~ the best guitarist in Yes, IMHO...
Alan White - skins ~ no Bruford, but no slouch
Igor Korashev - keys/multi
Billy Sherwood - guit/multi ~ both younger guys, both musical firecrackers weaned on the likes of Yes...

With Howe onboard, you can be sure they'll play plenty of the older quintessential "Yessongs-era" songs - it'd be worth just going to hear Howe again...caught a show at the Greek in '94 with Trevor Rabin (amazing live) and Tony Kaye ~ funny how that band plays musical chairs!

What's the line up of the Yes tour? (not Rick Wakeman Please)
Bill Bruford? Hope they play the old stuff.

sorry, but FYI - Joe Frank did the voiceover for Zima....

KD: I do hope you get the reference, but your last post sounds a little like a snippet of a monologue by Joe Frank. Damn, you're in good company - you're not THE Joe Frank, are you?

For those of you who know Joe, it would be a gas if Joe Frank checked out the site and also loved the Dan.

FYI - if you dig good music and amazing stories recited by professional voice over man, check out KCRW's web site and you can buy some tapes of Joe......
High on my recommendation list....

ygk

Two new Blues Artists i`d like to plug are Susan Tedeschi a cross between Janis Joplin and Bonnie Raite and A family act od Native Americans called Indiginous. These two acts are fresh and really kick ass.

gosh:

yeah, like, I can call Clas a stupid umlaut-lovin' neutral bastard. An Aryan fuckhead who likes to lure underage Nordic girls into the backseat of his Saab, tempting them with Zima and dark chocolate. I can talk about the fact that he posts several times a day from "work," spending an inordinate amount of time arguing over an Internet website that is visited only dozens of times a day by the same company of people that don't really like him all that much. And argues over chords to twenty-five year old songs instead of coming up with his own damn songs, naw, he's cool with arguing with people half a globe away for no reason that anyone can seem to figure out.

Sure as hell not me, I'm just a moron.

In lieu if no Dan in sight(?), and because of being awe struck by early summers tour with the DTS sound system I am actually going to see Yes 3 times in one week !!
Good music is like fine aged wine but(you can't get enough), but most musicians these days are not- except for Yes. These guys ,especially Chris Squire, are still on top of their game. I recommend anyone who has the opportunity see these guys.

Clas, Ole: como sa'va

Man, Don and Walt need to put something out soon. I listen to talk radio way too much. I have no patience for FM radio these days. What's next with radio DJ's? Too many smart asses or Rush Dittohead wanna be's. Hate to say it but "the world cafe" is high on my listening list.

CSNY back on tour. Groovy.
YES will play House Of Blues in New Orleans. Far Out.
What's the big following for Sheryl Crow about? I don't get it.

This ought to piss off all the high tech gurus.
I actually bought an 8-track player off of EBAY. AND IT WORKS!
I like the way the tape changes tracks in the middle of a song. Even on AJA.

Out.

A live album just won't cut it ---- I want new stuff!

The danger on the rocks is surely past, still i remain tied to the mast ....

Clas: hej! I think I've got the lyrics you tossed my way last week, or before. The "downtown" lyrics, remember?

Is it the JM song Help Me?

Gosh: I may be "spunky" sometimes but I am not cheap. It's the principle of the thing. Why be easy about something important? Take nothing for granted.

rb

November?? Timed to coincide with Brookhaven's little experiment with their heavy ion collider, which will try to replicate a teeny-weeny Big Bang, and some physicists are scared shitless it will produce a teeny-weeny Black Hole, just big enough to obliterate the solar system..
Leaving nothing but The New One, floating eternally where No One Has Gone Before...
Now THAT'S a release stunt second to none..
Gotta appreciate their sense of humor though..

Cool website. I invite all Steely Dan fans to visit my site and PLEASE sign the guestbook. http://www.angelfire.com/nf/americanchris/index.html

Edd - though I don't trust you after I read something about the snareintro of Boddddisathva, completely wrong analys, if the snare was on 1 3 or 2 4, I don't remember.

So one strike and you were audi. Sorry pal.

But I'm not longsighted, you can go on and answer this one.

So, off you go.

Clas

hey folks,
The new one? November release? Of this Year? I doubt it..

I'm guessing mid-spring, early summer of next year. I think they have already finished the album. It's sitting in a pretty little box while they sit back and watch us torture ourselves with anticipation. When they've had there fun, they will release a brilliant album, and we will all be happy with our shiny new CD's.
I hope D&W prove me wrong, in fact I dare them..."Come on guys, prove me wrong!!"
If I feel this old at 21...oy!!
David and Katy: Hey guys!!
JDF

hey folks,
The new one? November release? Of this Year? I doubt it..

I'm guessing mid-spring, early summer of next year. I think they have already finished the album. It's sitting in a pretty little box while they sit back and watch us torture ourselves with anticipation. When they've had there fun, they will release a brilliant album, and we will all be happy with our shiny new CD's.
I hope D&W prove me wrong, in fact I dare them..."Come on guys, prove me wrong!!"
If I feel this old at 21...oy!!
David and Katy: Hey guys!!
JDF

"...he said that I should ask Edd Cote so I gave up."

One must then wonder if you *really* want to know the answer to the question, or if you simply like asking it.

"And now the smooth, mellow, sounds of Steely Dan", playing on your radio on the smooth, mellow, Sade-rich, David Sandborn-loving neo jazz station.

And speaking of cross over, why didn't DIA get played on the latin stations?

Yeah Gosh, I can call KD a moron, but don't you call RubyBaby "bitch".

JW Maliubi; I don't wanne be a pain in the back but could you please help me with some other things I've been asking since I came here with the ship 1895.

Finaly I asked Pete Fogel, he said that I should ask Edd Cote so I gave up.

I'm pretty sure that the chord on Black Friday, wait;

Let's go to the refrain "when Black friday... it's A G / F# A / F#m/D#, A6/D / Bm7/E ...don't let it fall on me"

I've seen that some people want F#m/D# to be a F#/D#.

So tell me here now.

C

oh gosh:
the guys can call each other names, but let's not have any cross-over disses

Hutch,
CD ahead of schedule? That's rich. There IS no fucking schedule. Walt & Don promised on their website that news would hit there first. If someone has the stomach for it, go over and check. I fear these half-century-old boys are hiding out bemoaning whatever they bemoan all the time.

Well, Gosh, it'll sure be a surprise when it comes out!

Oh Ruby..You're just a cheap bitch!

but not always.

Hutch: I've never heard of Peaches. My local music stores couldn't care less about SD, which shows how narrow they are. Did the store employee say which company the rep was with?

fezo: wiggle room. I like it. But in a different context.

anyone: They've taken so long to come up with this nefarious "new one" that I'm beginning to doubt it's merit. Will it be any good? Are they over-doing it by fixing something that's probably not broke in the first place?

I may be breaking the SD Code of Honor here, but I want to listen before I buy. They will not ride on their own coat tails in my house!

rb

Bernard Purdie drum set used during unidentified Dan sessions for sale on ebay with starting bid at $25000. with partial proceeds to go to charity. Get out your wallets kids !

Anyone know where to get one of the Aja documentary DVD's or videos ???????????????????

If you have to ask, you'll never know

alright further quellin, I give. What's RnRHOF?

PS: SD nominated today for RnRHOF. Here we go again

1) If a "live album" is being released, it will be just yet another bootleg. Unauthorized, and with somebody other than D&W profiting from it.

2) The New One is not being released "ahead of schedule".

Both Tower Records, and Billboard's record release web site have no information whatsoever on an album of any kind.

Misinformation?
Mistake?
Mollification of the masses?

Call Scully and Mulder, and let me know what they say.

I'll be in my cave.

Later,

Herm

Andy ~ Your post showed up while I was writing mine. Maybe its this live cd that's coming out soon. Now I'm even more confused!

A friend of mine told me last night that he went into a local record store (Peaches) and the board at the front of the store showed a November release for Steely Dan ! He asked someone who worked there where they got that information. He was told that it was from the rep for the record company. Interesting eh?
Hard to imagine D&W releasing ahead of schedule! Could we be in for a big surprise? Obviously Peaches got information from somewhere about it. There's nothing new on the Reprise site though.
hmmmm.

scratchin my noggin
Hutch

I read in Goldmine that a Steely Dan live CD would be released from an early 1970's show. Has anyone else heard of this? Please let me know.
Andy

Hello, hello, hello. Is there anybody out there?

Yeah, what's going on? This has got to be the quietest four-day stretch that I have ever seen around here. So quiet, in fact, that I can't think of anything else to say.

Oh well, back in the cave.

Later,

Herm

With a name like Peter Schlong, it sounds like your dreams already HAVE come true.

Peter:

Actually, the official site rather cleverly promises release for "the first quarter of '00". This gives our heroes wiggle room if they decide to hop into the freezer with Walt Disney.

I'm really excited because I just learnt from the official Steely Dan website that the new album will be released in the first quarter of the year 2000. So will my dream finally come true?

4 posts in one day has got to be a record. Or at least an EP.

ya, nor would the real Donald have failed to include to middle eight during which Carlton clears his throat...

Clas, the man is obviously an imposter.

F#/B... ahhh

HTML doesn't recognize multiple spaces without the pre-format tag.

How the hell...?

Dear mr Faken, for example, this is wrong;

Am G6
Just by chance you crossed the diamond with the pearl

F6/9 Bb13
You turned it on the world, that's when you turned the world

This is right;

Am G6
Just by chance you crossed the diamond with the pearl

F6/9
You turned it on the world, that's when you turned the world

Bb13
around

outro;

Fmaj7 Em7 / Dm7 C /

Intro: C7#9

Am G6
While the music played you worked by candlelight

F6/9 Bb13
Those San Francisco nights, you were the best in town.

Am G6
Just by chance you crossed the diamond with the pearl

F6/9 Bb13
You turned it on the world, that's when you turned the world

around.

F6 G Am G6 Dm7 Em7 Dm7
Did you feel like Jesus? Did you realize

Em7 Fmaj7 Em7 Dm7
That you were a champion in their eyes?

C7#9

*** second verse jus' like the first !

Dm7 Em7 Dm7 Em7
Get along Get along Kid Charlemagne

Dm7 Em7 F7 G7 C7
Get along Kid Charlemagne

Thanks so much Malibu. It's not how I remember it. I thought it was only Eb that went up to E. But here I see that Bb follows, up to C.

Cool. Thanks again.

C

Hey, love that Steely Dan. He sings pretty good, too. But not as good as Al Stewart. In fact Al's song Midas Shadow sounds like Steely Dan was his back-up band for the day. I think Steely Dan ought to step aside vocally and hire Al to do all the vocals. What do you all think?
SNL

Hey, love that Steely Dan. He sings pretty good, too. But not as good as Al Stewart. In fact Al's song Midas Shadow sounds like Steely Dan was his back-up band for the day. I think Steely Dan ought to step aside vocally and hire Al to do all the vocals. What do you all think?
SNL

YGK: methinks he doth protest too much. You sound very young. In Your country they call it confidence. Where I come from they call it wanking.Get your hands off yourself and back on the piano .

Here's your answer, Clas ~ www.thekatbox.com/casellastudio/kidchar.htm

Hope that helps,

JW

Lars: Actually, it was Advanced Music Theory V.

You must teach "Relational Behaviour in ID 10T Code", or you could be a military type Seminarian, barking out lectures in "How to get your Degree through the Mail"....

I'm sure you're very good whatever it is.......

JW Malibu - I'm sittin here wonderin about the intro of Kid Charlemagne. The chord is C7-10 alright? On the keyboard it's taken from bottom to top; E - G - Bb - Eb

First this low C bass, then da da da daa da. Though there's no way I can't check out this by listen to it maybe you could help me out her.

The top tone, the minor third, Eb, isn't that note struggling up towards E at the last hit? Do you understand what I mean? Please hurry with your answer cause this toothpaine and kodein wants to take me to bed.

C

ygk - sure I do. Scream and kick ass all day. They luuuuvvv it. You "aced"? Nice, was it Home Economics?

Kids!

Can't post tonight, have this terrible toothpain. Just wanted you to know.

Don't worry, I'll be back maybe as soon as the Kodein set in.

Cl

Edd....*duh*....I found your homepage by putting your name in Alta Vista's search engine....first hit on the page....this is the one at ultranet....do you have any other? Nice page, especially liked the deconstruction of the Dan songs.

MC

Edd....you have a website? I'd like the addy if you don't mind so I can check it out. Thanks.

MC

Herm: pardon - that was F#maj...but you're right, that's enough 'Nam.

Edd: Good digging - I figured that it was probably a summer class, hence the quotation marks...funny how they still claim him as one of theirs - many of their "alums" would have had time to spend only a brief time there - it's not Cal-Berkeley y'know.

WHOLLYSHIT IS FUNNY AS HELL!

re: Fagen and Berzerklee

The "prominent alumni" page lists him as "Donald Fagen, '66".

Let's see... Born in '48, entered Bard in '65, graduated Berklee in '66? I don't buy it even if it is on their website. The math doesn't seem to work. An interview with DF in Jazziz states he took a summer class in arranging, but the prof got a gig and dumped the whole class on him in a couple hours. Sweet's book probably says the same thing.

re: "Stone Piano"

I've seen it a number of times. Can't remember the exact track listing, but remember it as essentially the same stuff ("Yellow Peril", "Android Warehouse", "Mock Turtle Song", etc.) that's been released on countless boots. The first one you hear is interesting...

Dr.M ~ I don't think I made any specific comments on any details of the Viet Nam discussion. You must have mistaken me for someone else.

Hey .. which one of them fancy schools did them boys in Lynyrd Skynyrd study at?? Huh.

Hutch

JW: Berklee does claim Donald as a "graduate," which has to mean something. Quincy Jones is another alum. It does seem to be more of a jazz haven as opposed to the "long-hairs" at Julliard - for a chuckle, there still may be a site buried in SD.com which revealed a less than exemplary grade for the Don in a music class at Bard!!

YGK: I agree with your analysis of the complex personna that is Wynton M. It doesn't hurt having Ellis as a Dad!...what a formal training. Working with Branford had to be an exhiliarting exterience - I'm a big fan of his solo albums with Kirkland, Watts...

Hutch: While I agree that we inadvertently and directly strengthened the opportunities for Ho - with all due respect that kind of man cannot be understimated (Eisenhower, Kennedy, Rusk, McNamara, Johnson made that mistake) - even without our "help", he still would jave been a huge force in Indochina/'Nam. Agree or disagree with his views and tactics, he was a man of destiny.

JWMalibu: I agree with everything you said as well. I really wasn't trying to be confrontational. Sorry if it came out that way.

Herm

Ben Williams: Edd Cote, I believe, would be a great source - see if you can find his e-mail in the Archives...Edd?? Help!

Lars: is that how you teach your underlings? yell at them all day to "Grow up!!!"? Charming, I'm sure they all love you and learn a great deal...

OK now, I'll try to have some closure on this:

Wynton is exceptional. There, I've said it.

Wynton IS exceptional.

Lars, darling, he is exceptional because he is an EXCEPTION. All students who attend fine conservatories DON'T become little Wynton's - some go right through the program and compete, teach, perform or whatever, some drop and do their own thing adding the experience to their wonderful, more fully enriched life.
HOWEVER, those students who attended those schools tend to have many more resources (musically significant experiences, etc) at their disposal that those who didn't have the talent and/or training. Not that there aren't exceptions either way, i.e. Zappa, D&W, etc. The truly remarkable thing is for someone to be able to have the chops to play the classical AND also swing/cook/comp and feel the music that is jazz. Many classical musicians have trouble improvising. Many jazz players have trouble reading classical 'charts'. Yet it is the rare musician who can do both, and do it well. Even those on the jazz side feel Wynton doesn't cut it for them. It's truly a bitch.

And is he extra special because he can do all that and he is black? Well, now, that's for you to decide.

But if I'm putting together an ensemble, I'll take a bunch of conservatory snobs over a bunch of Music Institute students any day, because THEY have most likely PUT IN THEIR DUES, and have a greater appreciation for the music at hand. Their not doing it (mostly) as an afterthought when their parents made them decide at 16 what school they were going to go to. ("Oh, yeah, I could just go to music school and hang out and jam!!! Dad'll pay.")
Oh yeah, PLUS, the group would SOUND better - remember that?

Don't get me wrong, I know it's extremely difficult to do both jazz and/or classical. For starters, the technique - for a pianist - is completely different. On the beat/off the beat - the accents are inverted. It's difficult changing your technique from Sonata to Song.

But Lars, you keep telling me to grow up, and magically, I will, but not because of you. Next year, I'll be a year older and wiser, with a keen eye out for professors telling me that their way is the 'right' way - as I have known for some time.

I remember a Professor like you at college - I dropped his class, took the same thing next semester with another teacher and Aced it.

ygk

Herm ~ I totally agree with ALL you've said, as I stated before - I am far from being a big Wynton fan...I think I own 2 WM CDs. As I indicated before, I was simply using the man as example of someone who chose a more difficult educational road. Whether or not he benefitted from it is open to conjecture. The majority of MY personal musical favs had little or NO formal musical training: Walt/Don, Frank Zappa, Joni, Monk, Parker, yadda yadda yadda....on the other hand, my favorite music professor - Dr. Victor Savant, got his doctorate from Eastman. He could play Prokofiev blindfolded with his toes, AND he could swing like a motherfucker AND rock you like a hurricane. Classical training does not preclude a musician from playing with soul...just as a lack of training will never hinder a musician/composer from brilliance, as in the case of Zappa. He probably BENEFITTED from not having the classical rules shoved down his throat; it added to his originality.

The gist of my original post was to take issue with the comparisons of Berklee to Julliard/Eastman. They're ALL great schools! Some are simply more difficult to get in and to stay in - period.

JWMalibu: I'm not out to diminish the things that Wynton has done, but being a cynic at heart, I do have a few things I would like to add as sidebars to your list.

We all know that the Grammys aren't really a true measurement of a person's talent. Remember Milli Vanili? For years, the award has gone to a person who I feel didn't deserve it. Wynton is a big name, and with that you get recognition. I'm not saying that it is that way across the board, but it does seem that connections will win over talent most of the time.

Sales don't mean much, either. Kenny G, John Tesh, and Yanni sell millions of records. So do the Spice Girls, (yum yum). In my eyes, high sales are just as much a result of great marketing as it is great talent, and not always do the two intertwine.

It is also my understanding from eavesdropping on some jazz message boards, that the jazz community is not all that pleased with Wynton being the musical director of the Lincoln Center. They pretty much agree with what we said about him, his stiffness, his "unswingability" (sic), his attitude toward whites, etc. I hear names like John Faddis and Chick Corea mentioned quite a bit as people who would be good in that post.Some people go as far to say that ANYONE other than him would be good.

And as far as the other accolades, well, all of that comes with name recognition also. Why is Bill Cosby made an honory doctorate to so many universities? Because it's good p.r. Famous people are always getting awards that they don't necessarily deserve. Again, I'm pretty cynical; it's quite possible that I just can't see the forest for the trees. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start a fight with you, maybe he is deserving of every single bauble he's ever gotten. I don't know. It's just that if I based it all on my taste for him, I'd highly doubt it.

Later,

Herm

What can you say about undoubtly the most prolific and talented songwriting duo in the history of rock music? I have been a fan of the "Dan" for years. I have collected a sizable roster of albums, CDs, etc. I have one called "Stone Piano" that is absolutely fantastic. Very early, just Walter, Donald and Denny. Does anybody have any further information on this album? Thanks.

Hermit - I do agree with you. Wynton is the perfect example of a # 1 student that is perfectly boring.

ygk - your "interpretation" of CLAS shows exactly what I´ve been trying to tell you the whole day. Grow up!!!!!!

Clas - javisst är det synd om människorna....det är nog ingen slump att flat-earth society lever och har hälsan ute i öknarna där. Dessutom äääälskar jag att skriva på svenska här!

Herm: I agree wholeheartedly ~ as far as trumpet players go, I'd take Miles or Hubbard over Wynton in a heartbeat. Also, as YGK pointed out, he has a way of sticking his foot in his mouth with the comments regarding race, etc ~ like some other people we know. I was simply using him as an example of a musician who could write his own ticket, and chose the traditional route. The man is no slouch, though...here are a few things he has accomplished in his 38 years:

- In 1997 he became the first jazz musician to win the Pulitzer Prize in music, for his epic oratorio on the subject of slavery, Blood on the Fields.

- Winner of eight Grammy awards for his jazz and classical recordings.

- Marsalis has also been creatively involved in musical education. His four-part, Peabody Award-winning TV series Marsalis on Music, released on home video by Sony Classical, introduces young viewers to the adventure of making music. USA Today hailed Marsalis on Music as "a thrilling four-part seminar of music appreciation written and literally conducted by the affable Wynton Marsalis. Comparisons to Leonard Bernstein's famed "Young People's Concerts" are appropriate."

- Marsalis' numerous jazz and classical recordings for Columbia and Sony Classical have sold nearly five million copies world wide. He has taken his jazz groups to thirty countries on six continents, averaging more than 120 concerts per year for many of the past sixteen years.

- Marsalis serves as artistic director for the internationally recognised Jazz at Lincoln Center program, which he co-founded in 1987. Under his leadership, the jazz department earned the distinction of being named Lincoln Center's first new constituent organisation since 1969.

- Marsalis has also shown a special interest in composing for dance. His Sony Classical recording Jump Start and Jazz features Jazz/Six Syncopated Movements and Jump Start, which were written for ballets by Peter Martins and Twyla Tharp, respectively. The New York Times rated the score of Jump Start as simply "superb," and Newsweek wrote that Jazz contained "verve and vigour rarely heard at the ballet." His most recent Jazz at Lincoln Center commission for the ballet was Sweet Release, his first collaboration with Judith Jamison of the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theatre and a work that The New York Times described as "sly and exuberant." Marsalis also collaborated with Garth Fagan to create a three-movement symphony for seven pieces, Citi Movement/Griot New York, his first music for dance as well as his first extended work. He recently wrote Ghost Story for New York's Zhong Mei Dance Company.

- Marsalis has been awarded the Grand Prix du Disque of France and the Edison Award of the Netherlands, and was elected an honorary member of England's Royal Academy of Music. In recognition of the many hours he has contributed to music education, community organisations, and charities, he has been given keys to cities across the country, all types of community service awards, and a congressional citation. In May of 1997 he received honorary doctorate degrees from Rutgers University and Amherst College; the se honours will be added to the list of colleges and universities that have recognised him, including Yale, Princeton, Brown, Columbia, John Hopkins, Brandeis, the Manhattan School of Music and the University of Miami. He was profiled by 60 Minutes in December 1995. He has been the subject of cover stories for Life magazine, Time magazine, Parade, the Sunday New York Times Magazine, the Sunday Los Angeles Times Calendar, London Times magazine and Esquire (UK), as well as numerous appearances on the covers of JazzTimes, Downbeat, and Jazziz. In 1996, Time magazine named him among America's twenty five most influential people.

Not too shabby...you've gotta' admit, the guy is doing SOMETHING right!

DrMu, fezo: my ears are burnin. Floyd was all right. Figures that the first big storm of the season that i actually prepare for and all we get is 7" of rain. I must be getting better at my rain dancing, i've been practicing since July......

I love inflatable people - [JOkeR}

Excuse my ignorance but who the hell is Wyron?

Herm: These two Ionesco-Heads walk into a bar and the bartender says, "what'll you have", and the first says, "Alfred Jarry for Lunch". The second says, "I do?"

Herm: I agree with you on Wynton. It seemed that when he started to make noise on the music scene, everyone was talking about his performances on his Trumpet Concerto's, and then, shortly thereafter, he was a jazz player. Then, a decade later, he was 'institutionalized' by Lincoln Center as heading up their jazz program. Lincoln Center is primarily a 'classical' institution, so I can understand their familiarity (not to mention his 'draw' by certain members of the community who probably wouldn't attend Lincoln Center) with him and the choice they made. I've listened to over a dozen of Wynton's records, and I don't get it. No chills. No moments. No tension and release which makes me come back for another listen.
But that's just me - a New York loving sap who was unable to get into Juilliard - maybe I don't have good enough ears.

Also, I don't like the political nature of the man who has said repeatedly that jazz is a wholly black art form; he's been quoted as saying that "white folks can't play jazz" because we don't have the soul, the history, the suffering, etc. I won't go there.

Anyway, I did work a recording session years ago with Branford Marsalis, who was very real and cool, who played his session without going over the time limit and without acting like an ass.

ygk

I meant, "...at the end of the semester". I wasn't trying to imply that one class of Ionesco would change a person's life. Although that may happen to some people, that is not what I was trying to convey.

Thank you,

Herm

Hi everyone!

JWMailbu: I wonder if it would have made a difference in Wynton's case if he had attended a 'jazz' university instead of Julliard. I admit that I don't play any instrument, (although I've tried), and I know very little about musical theory, but I really don't care for Wynton's playing at all. And I'm a huge jazz fan. There are very few musicians that I truly dislike. IMO, Wynton lacks soul, for lack of a better term. Everything I've heard come from his trumpet seems stiff when compared to other jazz musicans. I just don't think the man swings. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that he went to Julliard. Maybe too much of that Classical/European training drained some of that Marsalis soul, because I think Branford is okay, as is their father.

F#Maj: You said that the talent will come out no matter what school you attend, (you used Robin Williams as your example), and that may be true, but instructors do a lot as far as where that talent gets focused initially. I studied theater and creative writing in college, a school which was closely tied with the Second City in Chicago, so as a result, I learned an awful lot about improvisation - something I might not have focused as much attention on had I gone to another school. Our instructors were either from Second City, or other theaters in Chicago, so we ended up learning that 'style'. Another college may have been more into teaching Shakespeare, or Moliere, both of which I studied, (but not to the degree of others). This influence goes a long way in shaping a person's vision. Sometimes it all matters on the class you stumble into and the teacher that you get for that previously closed portion of your brain to open and realize that what you're learning is what you want to do with the rest of your life. That's what happened with me. If it wasn't for one improv class, (I had previously never known anything about improv), and that one fantastic teacher, I probably wouldn't have been so sure of my career choice. I know this as a fact, because when I was much younger, I was very interested in becoming a cartoonist. I enjoyed it, was pretty good at it, and had won awards for my age group. But then, I had this real asshole of an art teacher freshman year of high school, and the experience completely turned me off from pursuing it any further. That may seem extreme, but truthfully, after that guy, having a career in art did not interest me anymore, and for years I floundered until I fell into theater. So, sometimes it DOES matter, but in that case, I believe that it's serendipidy, and you don't have very much control over it.

Yeah, Robin Williams probably would have been famous no matter where he went, but he's a rare individual. Many people in theater and music classes don't have abilities and talent supierior to their teachers, so they tend to look on them with a certain reverence, at least for a while. That is a powerful influence that lasts for a long time. There were classes where we studied only one playright, sometimes only one play, and at the end, students walked out 'Beckett-heads', or 'Ionesco-heads', interested in very little else than interpreting their works. So, as I said, you just never know.

And as far as Wynton goes, oh well. Those that like him can have him. Taste is subjective, and to each his/her own. I have dozens of other trumpeters that I can listen to that move me.

Later,

Herm

Berklee is a fine music college, it serves the needs of those who wish to study music with an emphasis on jazz. Many famous names have been associated with the college, either as alumni, professors or guest lecturers. MIT and its assorted sub-schools - Guitar Institute, Keyboard Institute, etc. also serves the music community by offering a course of study with focus on rock formats. Is one "better" than the other? Of course not...it all comes down to how much effort each individual student puts into their studies ~ you reap what you sow! I'm sure there are great and mediocre professors at each, as is the case with any institute of higher learning.

Berklee and MIT place more emphasis on improvisation in the performance courses because of the improvisatory nature of jazz & rock. The traditional music schools place emphasis the study of classical music, from its earliest forms through the 20th century. The traditional schools are, by nature, stodgier ~ that's a given. There are many fine traditional music schools in the United States: Eastman, Julliard, New England Conservatory, etc. on the east coast, University of Southern California, Chapman University on the west, to name just a few. But, just as going to Berklee will not guarantee that you will end up with a musical mind like, say - Wynton Marsalis, neither will going to Julliard turn you into an automaton cranking out letter-perfect renditions of Prokofiev's Piano Concertos.

While we're on the subject of Mr. Marsalis, let's use him as a case study for the purposes of this "discussion" ~ Here's a cat who picked up the trumpet as 12 (!), and was/is a musical prodigy of the highest level. He knew from square one that he wanted to be a JAZZ MUSICIAN. Naturally, one would assume that IF he decided to pursue a higher education that Berklee would have been a natural choice for him. Here's a guy who could've gotten into ANY music school of his choice, and he ends up at Julliard. Go figure...

Did he have anal-retentive professors who had 1/10th of his innate musical talent? Probably. Did he have fellow students whose parents built a dormitory, and they were able to squeak by the rigorous admissions standards? Probably...but the "George W. Bush" examples are exceptions to the rule ~ you might as well be asking how many angels can play Lizst on the head of a pin! We're talking about the RULE, not the exception to the rule. I'll give you an exception: Frank Zappa had one semester of music theory...

Personally, I went the same route...I got accepted to Berklee, among others, and after much deliberation chose a traditional musical education. I don't regret having made this choice. Was it a BETTER choice? Maybe, maybe not. Like I said before, you get out of it what you put into it.

Is Julliard or Eastman 10 times more difficult for an aspiring musician to get into than Berklee? Fuck yes!!! Put the spin on it as much as your little heart desires, but that IS the bottom line, and that is the meat and potatoes of this entire "discussion"...Do you actually think that 75% of the applicants to Julliard or Eastman get accepted? If you do, then you need to do a little research, or lay off the booze...

THESE are the qualifications for attendance at Berklee, pasted directly from their site:

Generally, the Board of Admissions considers three main areas of a student's background when making an admissions decision:

1) Background on principal instrument. The Board of Admissions prefers all applicants have a minimum of two years (2 years, folks!) of recent formal instruction on their instrument, including study of the standard methods for that particular instrument.

2) Knowledge of basic (yes, basic is the key word here) music theory. A student may learn the theory topics through classes, private instruction, or self study.

3) Academic ability as demonstrated from high school and post secondary school transcripts, and for Degree Program domestic applicants, satisfactory SAT or ACT scores.

4) For international students, it is required that all students be able to communicate effectively in English.
Q: What percentage of applicants are accepted?

Approximately 75 percent (read it and weep) of the applicants for full-time undergraduate programs are accepted to the college.
75% versus 9%- do the math ~ case closed...YGK is on the money. Sorry to ruffle any feathers, but facts is facts…

…just ask Wynton

F#Maj: Agreed re: Keith's onstage histrionics ~ he was just tryin' to be like his hero, Jimi! did you know that Jimi almost joined ELP? They were going to call it HELP, or so the legend goes...

Now I know what "Clas" stands for:

Context Lost Among Swedes

that may explain everything he has posted thus far....

Edd: found your website. most enjoyable. favorite line: "...start counting from Gaucho", nyuk nyuks. turn that beat over again

Altamira: Brooker also released two solo alubums which are so long out of print we're talking vinyl, cut-out bin, 50 cents for both. He has one the most memorable voices you'll ever hear.

JWMalibu: Brooker's progeny is Bach and Roll. They once did Also Sprach Zarathustra on stage at the Fillmore [and when the Joshua Light Show Folks put up a graphic of Starchild from 2001 Gary went a little ballistic. wait. make that "apeshit". intense.
btw, when KeithE began sustaining notes on his Hammond by sticking knives into the keys (and how many times can you twirl your C3 before you short out a cable?) he sorta lost me. I wanted him to shut up and play his guitar. I still listen to The Nice-
live recordings of Blue Rondo a la Turk (in 4!) and She Belongs to Me full of classical inuendo and Copelandesque precursors to Hoe Down from Rodeo- which he liked to crank into with ELP. That's entertainment.

Schwinn: Of course they suck. [yawn] you are predictable. is that worse than boring? go ahead, stay in character [or bogus personna] and have the last word now.

JWM: forgot to mention Keith Reid. If I wrote for the Rolling Stone I'd use "Zoroastrianist angst" at least three times in my pretentious review of HOME, which came after Salty Dog. They peaked there, unfortunately, with Piggy Pig Pig/Whaling Stories. Trower was to commune with the spirit of Hendrix shortly thereafter and begin to battle the band in what would result in too much of Broken Barricades and, finally [appropriately] his exit. BJ Wilson is another story- he was unique and evocatively dramatic, producing some of the finest entrances in rock music- a perfect drummer [in the same sense that SD's drummers have created fills and beats which are tantamount to the changes and the lyrics].

DrMu/OMIO: either of you read Sheehan's A Bright and Shining Lie? The USA helped to create Uncle Ho. Uncle Sam was shouldering the door closed in Paris. You couldn't have had Ghandi without the British. We wouldn't have had Uncle Ho if they'd let him into the room? I think so. not. hmmmm. oh well.

Hutch: a good riff is a good riff amongst like-minded Danizens [which doesn't presuppose agreement...]

Oleander: does ya need a Raggmopp?? re:Viet Nam- I suspected that Aja didn't take place in some mental facility as you suggest in your Fever Dream. The angular banjo, the Chinese music sounded like a hillbilly sort talking... maybe from "over the hill", like a grunt who has bid a hasty and most unofficial East St.Loo Toodle to his unit and now has time to burn with others he has hooked up with at the dude ranch. I wear this interpretation like a loose garment though. It was an impressionist whisp on first listening; it slips off real easy. There is no dime dancing like humping the boonies. Hope you have built your dude ranch on high ground.

YGK: first, God bless your hands sir. second, Ayn Rand's Howard Roark would have EGOISTically gotten himself thrown out of Julliard and gone on to become Laurie Anderson [weird science and all]. finally, going through the process of applying to colleges with my youngest... Julliard's acceptance avg. is 9% (lower than Harvard) and The Performance of the audition is a flaming hoop.
Do you know how Houdini [according to the movie] prepared for his escape from the hole in the frozen river? He took ice baths to constitute his constitution. You should have had snowball fights without gloves and then hit the keys [sorry, but it was your anectdote and you weren't prepared]. Even if you had prepared for the fire with ice, your chances of getting extinguished on the audition were 91%. Each school of music [like any other school, believe me- I teach at a major university] has its forte [pun intended] but [there's always a but] talent is talent. Do you think you'd know the name Robin Williams if he had blown his Julliard audition? i think so. I'm enjoying your posts.

Lars: ya, he also helped design a cute little automobile

Clas: no offense taken. F#/B is the soul of Zoot Allures, FZ., and one of my faves. That chord is what you hear when your elevator door opens before the pearly gates... [if you hear flatted fifths you better punch a higher floor rilly fast]. btw, I am also from NYC and even drove a taxi one summer for the sociological enrichment factor and the moderate green. your geographical humor is appreciated... and if you turn left from Riverside Drive in Queens you'll hit the Montauk Lighthouse just after Flatbush. sand between my toes...ahhhhh.

guys: clas is doing something to your brains similar to what W.J. Clinton has been doing to the American public for 7 years now... backwards.

now pull up a bagel and re-lox

F#/B

"Some people spent years makin' their own music
then you come along cut it up and abuse it.
You stealin' other peoples licks
usein' those computer tricks
takin' what the fathers did and mixin it up
(it sounds like shit!)"
copyright 1990 Ryk Buter

What do you mean YGKeith? The Gaucho sax intro? Glamour Profession? Rikki Don't Loose That Number?

And hey stranger; this was cool, do you mind, once more?

"ygk,
discussions about which schools are better than others are really just snotball class system bullshit. if it's so tough to get into a "good" school, then how come gov. bush of texas, who went to yale like his daddy, doesn't know the difference between slovakia and slovenia? if your mommy and daddy are well-placed in the socioecomic strata and send you to the right $30,000 a year elementary school, you will go Ivy. Or, conversely, if you're from this month's politically correct racial group, your chances skyrocket. So take a flying fuck with your snob bullshit. chuck berry can never learned to read and write so well, but he can play a guitar like ringing a bell."

GEENA - howdy howdy howdy! I hope everything is good with you and the little one. Any sleep?

Jonas didn't meantion any hurricane so I guess it died. He's got some ambivalent opinions about the teachers and the school, but I told him to wait a couple of weeks before he make any descions.

C

Clas: Walking 30 blocks in the winter without gloves? Dumb. No shit, Sherlock.

Oh, you were making fun of me. That's it. No need for me to respond - I just realized your idiocy was too far gone to be repaired.

OMIO: I would guess, offhand, that SRI is Sound Recording Institute, but it's just a guess...

Lars: "I hate people having a very specific and clear answer before they have made any kind of analysis."

Again, what you fail to realize - Mr. Professor - is that I HAVE made analyses, which have led to my clear answers. I think you may find difficulty encountering someone who has clear answers and thoughts.

But I find it interesting that in all of your 20 years of university/college experience you find Tradition as a 'bad' trait. Any notable musician will most likely tell you how important tradition is, to learn what came before to create something new - if they so choose.
I don't know what you teach, but your argument basically allows for the disposal of hundreds of years of history. So therefore, let's just throw away everything pre-1970, and see what kind of curriculum you come up with. Pretty soon you'll be telling me that the world is flat.

OK - so you're older than me. And that means what?
You're better? You know more? Experienced more? Perhaps, but if you know more you sure don't demonstrate it.

You do remind me of the spineless educators/'thinkers' Ms. Rand incorporated in Atlas, whose lack of conviction promotes the general state of mediocrity. I'll even bet you think karaoke is a fine art. How did you find this board?

ygk

YGKeith Jarrett - Lars and I are not the same person. Read closer and you'll discover he's better on the English language than I.

Do you know anything about boxing? Floyd Patterson? No?

And this:

"...rejected by Juilliard (my audition was preceded by a 30 block walk in the winter with no gloves)..." You took a 30 block walk in the winter with no gloves to do a piano audition? That's not very smart Malc, not Smart.

Berklee, well, it seem to be okay. And I trust a school that have had Hornsby as a student. And with Gary Burton as chief. I overlook the Pat Metheny-prescense back in the 70s. Awful musician.

LARS - ja du, man blir lite förtvivlad över det här landets innevånare ibland. Men Malc är en typisk "tuff" New Yorker, inte särskilt talented. Negativ IQ antagligen. Nu för tiden har jag börjat tycka sorry for some people here. Its that a good or bad sign? Do you see how serious he is about everything about New York? Did he build that city?

He didn't realized I was making a fool of him, not even when I said that Riverside Drive was the Mainstreet in Queens.

Lars - har du kvar min email? atelje.lundkvist@swipnet.se, hör av dig om du har lust!

C

Question: In Zappa's "Tinseltown Rebellion" he has a line..
So we'll go on off to SRI (?)
To learn some stupid licks...
Vot iss SRI, or whatever it is..?

Great Moments: Gen. McAfree during Panama invasion, holding bags of tortilla paste, claiming it's cocaine from The Pineapples personal Satanic Ritual stash..
It's the little things that get you into a job like Drug Czar..

I have to disappoint you but I´m neither a sophomore or a novice and have never seen Berklee not even on a postcard. I´m probably a lot older than you are and hopefully not that eager to bring out myself as you are. My main critism of your postings is that you contradict yourself too much and I hate people having a very specific and clear answer before they have made any kind of analysis.How creative to mention Eastman and Julliard. Very correct. I´m sure that you know all about american music schools, and what you´re supposed to think about them, but I´m also sure that you dont know one single thing about matching the individual needs with resources within the institutes and universities. You seem to believe in an absolute quality. I have to disagree. At my age and with more than 20 years experience as a university teacher and researcher both at ordiniary ranked and top ranked universities, I´m pretty sure that within the "fine" institutions there are a lot of people more worried about their social status than about their students. The most creative and dedicated teachers very seldom find their way to those institutions. These places are to conservative and breeds only tradition.

I´m not Clas and I dont like inflated people

Johnboy - YES ! I saw Jeff Beck in Norfolk, Va. last month. It was a fairly small venue.. I was about ten feet away from him.
An amazing show for sure! I think every guitar player in a 100 mile radius was there (including me!) Watching him play live is quite an experience. Since he doesn't use a pick watching his right hand technique is just as fascinating as watching the dazzling stuff he does with his left hand. Nobody plays guitar like him. He's about as unique as it gets... snapping and pulling strings with the fingers on his right hand and that whammy bar always right under his palm (but never over used).
Did he do "A Day in the Life" at the show you saw? That was surely one of the highlights when I saw him in Norfolk. Jennifer was really something wasn't she? (why can't I meet a girl like that ?!) I kept waiting to hear "Freeway Jam" .. figured he'd do it as an encore but never did. My band does that song occasionally... it's a lot of fun to play.
Glad you got to see him.

As for Clas. Well...what can you say? Patience is a virtue.

Hutch

I bow in the direction of YGK...

Kamfire: thanx for the tip - I will check it out....

Hey did anyone know if the boys got a plug or just a rating on the top 100 greatest groups in rock and roll on VH-1 a few nights ago. If so was it worthwhile, unfortunately I missed it.
Lars: Now, now, now no pissin' on our schools. The Eastman is a hell of a music school, I know friends who attend and save a lot less money and manage to have much better attitudes than those who study abroad upon returning. In agreement
with YGK I must admit LT and PG are NOT even close to even being considered on any level of SD.
YGK: Please continue to school Clas, on the ancient art of guestbook posting(with some form of intelligence). In all your quests for real hip-hop (with real music and musicians) might I offer up The Roots, tell your friend also. Okayplayer.com is definately the first step.

Hey, "Bad Sneakers" was one of my favorites, only second to
the monumental Dr.
kamfire

Lars: I love it. "No objective criteria". It seems that I am dealing with a novice - or perhaps a sophomore at Berklee?
What you fail to realize is that in the course of my travels, in my associations with musicians, music students, teachers, piano faculty, and other music people, is that one learns about an institution based on considering it for possible attendance. Is it worth the time? Who is on the faculty? What kind of standards to they adhere to? What is being taught?
The fact that I didn't break down Berklee to your satisfaction does not mean that I didn't consider it at one time.
I talked to students who went there (and left, soon in their first year). I listened outside of practice rooms. I reviewed the faculty. Who would I be studying with? etc.
It turned out that the classical AND jazz staff at Ithaca at the time was first rate. One such professor had earned his Doctorate from Eastman in Jazz Studies.
Imagine: What kind of professors actually want to teach students whose requirements for acceptance are the ability to play the notes of a Bach Prelude and "improvise" over Satin Doll?
Perhaps some people on the board will understand...but I don't know any great teachers would deal with all the young, green players who can play a run at 160bpm and think they are the next Herbie Hancock...you don't get quality that way.

Not good enough? Perhaps. Bad audition? Also a likely scenario. Getting into Oberlin and NEC, and not getting into Juilliard and Eastman? Call it what you like. If you've ever auditioned at 4 major institutions in a month you will quickly learn that auditions are like the weather - they change and vary depending on the littlest things. I make no apologies, but still, Lars/Clas - if you are not the same poster, you sure sound like you are. And it's apparent their neither of you really know what you are talking about.

ygk

Nice talking ygk. I almost wept... You´re sure right about that there porbably are better schools (and worse) but not by any objective criteria. If you had come up with any way to measure like that you are lucky because the whole schoolsystem have been searching for that a long time. But you miss one thing in your posting.. you made it clear earlier that you know what you are talking about. Then you made a clear statement about Berklee. From what I can read you know nothing about Berklee but you feel free to make any statements at all about it???? Nice try about the weather and the 30 block walk - but have you ever thought about that you were not good enough. Dont give me that crap about beeing a "wonderboy". I guess there are a few of us that also can treat the piano in a decent way.

Ayn Rand? You must be sick! hitler made great freeways but I would never lean on him for my arguments..

Stranger: "discussions about which schools are better than others are really just snotball class system bullshit", well, well, well, Ayn Rand WAS on to something.

While I'd rather not be put down/insulted like the next guy, the fact of the matter is there ARE better schools than others...it's a simple statement of fact. I won't bore you will all the details as to WHY, but let me explain from where I come:

I studied music (piano) from an early age; studied hard, was playing the classical competitition circuit when I was 10, and spent much of my teen years performing in competitions. At 17, I was able to be accepted into the Oberlin Conservatory and the New England Conservatory, two uncommon schools for learning and developing, and extremely difficult to get into. I was rejected by Juilliard (my audition was preceded by a 30 block walk in the winter with no gloves) and Eastman (where I auditioned by tape - NEVER DO THIS).
By all accounts I have spent the better part of 25 years studying music, which has now expanded to jazz and other serious forms. Now, the audition process for these schools is a lengthy, nerve wracking and political process. Juilliard is a tough nut to crack. I even played along with polticial behaviour of the time and tried to ride a friend of my teachers coattails at the audition. Alas, my hands were cold, and my Bach was stiff and lifeless, 15 minutes later I left the audition, convinced that my modern and romantic works were good enough for entry into this bizarre and wonderful instituion. It didn't matter, I got into NEC in Boston with a marvelous teacher. Alas, my parents, regardless as to how much praying they did, didn't stumble upon the $16,000/year back in 1980 that NEC charged for tuition. I got no scholarhip from NEC and Oberlin ($12,000/year) and was able to attend small, liberal arts Ithaca College in beautiful upstate New York on a scholarship. As my father didn't plan (he was only able to send me to school for 1 year), I had to figure out how to pick up the tab from the rest of the years. I did well at Ithaca, got into the right studio and have diversified myself since with minimal regrets. Enough.
But now, you're going to tell me that all of the work that I, and others like me, put into practicing, studying and learning the subtleties of music is equal to someone going to a school with a revolving door admissions policy? Sure there are some some notable musicians who attended Berklee and still give Master classes and talks (well shit, Phillip Glass came to Ithaca), but I'm sure, based on numbers, they are the MINUTE exceptions.

So fault me if you like about this "snob bullshit", but I'll bet there are more talented musicians in Boston at NEC who can back up their 'snobbish' attitude than the "all attitude, little substance" boys and girls at Berklee, who may or may not may be there courtesy of daddy or mommy. I dare you to talk to the parents of students at Berklee and NEC 10 years out, and see what a "wise decision" Berklee was for their little Johnny...whereas, perentage wise, I bet your NEC students have a clue, have some perspective and humility - once they know they are not the next Misha Dichter, and have a situation where they can continue their music and make a fine living.

What bothers me so much is YOUR Attitude. It seems that you would prefer a level playing field; anyone who plays an instrument or a turn table, or beats a percussion instrument, everyone is the same and should have the same opportunity to make their big break into music, sharing their rythyms and beats with the world, making a living doing so. THIS is why I mentioned Ms. Rand. People do not have equal talents, and everyone who plays music doesn't need to be subsidized and given a record contract.
IMHO - the proliferation of karaoke, keyboards that allow people to "Learn to play in 20 minutes" merely promote the acceptance of BULLSHIT....and you if extend that commercial thought out to record companies, you will see why we get folks like, for example, Lord Tariq and Peter Gunn, who sampled Black Cow, rapped over it, and then complained about having to pag 120G for the right to use it, exist.
So, according to you, LT & PG are the same as DF & WB, right? LT & PG gave Black Cow "new meaning", right? We, the public, just couldn't hear the "unique variations" of Black Cow as put forth by the artists LT & PG, you with me, homie?
THAT, my friend is BULLSHIT.

Lord Tariq & Peter Gunn have this 'tude like they all bad and shit, like they are really something new and big and whatEVA! But all they did was write some words, man. I'll give them credit in that they dug the Dan enough to use it, but shit, my philosophy is, and will be: If you like someones tune, re-make it! Have some MUSICIANS play it, who KNOW Music, have them make a new arrangement, that's cool! Sampling doesn't create shit - and while Hip Hop may be the 'New Poetry', I still think it would be much better to have new poetry with new music. I see these guys and wonder - "Where the fuck did you get your attitude? Who told you you were good?" This friend of mine wrote a bit on sampling.....

"Some people spent years makin' their own music
then you come along cut it up and abuse it.
You stealin' other peoples licks
usein' those computer tricks
takin' what the fathers did and mixin it up
(it sounds like shit!)"
copyright 1990 Ryk Buter

So, while attending any music school does not guarantee that you will make it as a musician (the classical life is a tough one only a fraction of a percentage of people know about and succeed in, and jazz is a little easier, depending on what you call jazz), I will defend the difference of music schools, because there IS a difference. It's not just money that gets you in the door, it is real talent, not the Casio keyboard variety, either.

YGK

third party: Do you know what "ethnocentric" means? It describes Clas perfectly....I'm curious as to why you would use that term to describe me. Are you able to elaborate or did it just sound good to you? At least use an appropriate insult or do you also get easily confused by facts?
I have no idea whether Clas may know more about where I live than he does about Sweden. I am neither a resident nor citizen of the US and never have been. He doesn't seem to know all that much about the States though. If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that Clas tried to find out where I was from when he threatened to kill me a while back. I declined then, as I do now, to provide that information.

I'd like to know what inspired the lyrics for "Deacon Blue".

Jonnyboy : you seem a little ethnocentric to me -do you know as much about Sweden as Clas knows about your country?

Anybody else get a chance to see Jeff Beck? Saw him a few weeks ago. Unbelievable....Had another guitarist in his band, Jennifer Batten, who was almost as astonishing. One of the best shows I,ve ever seen.

Also had a chance to see James Cotton. He gets better as he gets older. His band had no drums or bass. Never missed them.

YGK: Clas is a dishonest, cloying, bigot seething with disdain for anything not swedish. He purports to be, in his words, "wealthy" but wonders if he can afford a trip to the States to see his son. He's regaled us with stories of fake heart attacks, fake cancer and his dog's dick. His musical knowledge seems limited to Bruce Hornsby, Jackson Browne and Joni Mitchell. He phones women in the middle of the night in a drunken stupor and threatens to kill those who question his behaviour. Ignore him. He won't go away and doesn't like to be confused by facts, so why bother....

ygk - talking about rich parents...the tuition fees at Berklee:$14.150 a year; Eastman:$16.200 an finally Julliard: $26.500.

ygk - ho, ho, ho correcting idiots??!! when it comes to judge music schools you´re probably #1. What school has among its alumni DONALD FAGEN, Quincy Jones and Gary Burton? What school held clinics with Pat Metheny, Joe Lovano and Max Roach among others? What a shame they didn´t ask for your advise before they associated with a Guitar Institute near you.

Clas - den här mannen är en galning (bland många)! Det där med att ha sett världen...jag tvivlar på att han någonsin varit över Brooklyn Bridge. Glenn Gould måste vara den där killen som Alzheimer bockerade.

ygk,
discussions about which schools are better than others are really just snotball class system bullshit. if it's so tough to get into a "good" school, then how come gov. bush of texas, who went to yale like his daddy, doesn't know the difference between slovakia and slovenia? if your mommy and daddy are well-placed in the socioecomic strata and send you to the right $30,000 a year elementary school, you will go Ivy. Or, conversely, if you're from this month's politically correct racial group, your chances skyrocket. So take a flying fuck with your snob bullshit. chuck berry can never learned to read and write so well, but he can play a guitar like ringing a bell.

fezo: or was that you hangin' with joKah...so do I and was closer than you know...

Hutch: just one of Fagen's alliteration iterations. How about: "in the summer all the swells join in the search for sun and sand"

Clas, I never said I spoke Oxford English, that was your assinine statement you brainless twit, and calling someone an Uncle Tom is racist. You might want to call some of your cronies from Oxford to verify that.

JW: It is good to know what to look for when the time comes. Thanx....perhaps we could swap tapes...

ygk

YGK: Wish I could recommend to you some studios/duplication houses in the Big Apple that have the Finalizer, but I'm out here in LaLaLand ~ but, I'm sure 90% of the decent studios have it or an even better solution. I'd farm out my own CD-burning to a duplication house, but for the fact that I compose primarily for my own satisfaction and burn limited amounts of CDs for archival purposes/sharing amongst friends.

David: Nice site ~ liked the hip-hopping penguins and the "Home at Last" MIDI file! Are you getting some good results with that Finalizer? Definately count me in for a copy of your latest when it's done...I'll burn some CDs of my current projects and shoot them out your way

On "Royal Scam" credits, who the hell is "buns"?

hej Clas din gamle skojare - det ser ut som di gamle är igång igen. Bra den där om Patterson synd att de intet begriper.

YGK- lets face it you probably know SOME streets in Brååklynn but thats all and you share this with too many fellow americans. Its a shame that Dan of all bands have fans like You. Narrowminded and the discussion fails to go any further than the local papers.

Picking on language! Whoa - I´m impressed!!! Is this the offical all-american site for those who takes Dan as an excuse for discussing the local weather??? How about writing more than two words in correct swedish? Can you write anything wise in french? german? italian?

Kinky - please come back and give this imposter what once made him leave this board.

You are policing this site from

hej Clas din gamle skojare - det ser ut som di gamle är igång igen. Bra den där om Patterson synd att de intet begriper.

YGK- lets face it you probably know SOME streets in Brååklynn but thats all and you share this with too many fellow americans. Its a shame that Dan of all bands have fans like You. Narrowminded and the discussion fails to go any further than the local papers.

Picking on language! Whoa - I´m impressed!!! Is this the offical all-american site for those who takes Dan as an excuse for discussing the local weather??? How about writing more than two words in correct swedish? Can you write anything wise in french? german? italian?

Kinky - please come back and give this imposter what once made him leave this board.

You are policing this site from

"Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Gosh, um, jeez, y'know - I didn't expect this....
But I guess I really have to thank my inspiration for this - I mean, jeez, Clas really deserved it, considering that I havent' posted with any regularity for THE PAST 14 MONTHS or so, and everytime I looked in, he was rambling about something or another, but jeez, to be given such an honor.....wow - if only Kinky were here to see this....I'm sure he would be proud...
and then, I guess I should thank my parents....and ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

AND THE AWARD FOR THE MOST POSTS
IN ONE DAY GOES TO?????????????????

YES YOU GUESSED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YGK

FOR HIS OUTSTANDING EFFORTS ON 9/16/99

...or Oberlin, NEC, Manhattan School of Music...

...now THERE is one who knows...

Stranger: Watch out! She's a feisty one....

Geena: I'm home safe and sound - 'tis windy on the isle of Manhattan....

ygk

The fact of the matter is: any idiot with parents willing to pay his/her tuition can get into Berklee, it's one step away from Guitar Institute. You wanna' talk about a FINE music school: try getting your reindeer-hearding offspring into Julliard or Eastman.

Geena,
Paris was terrific. Had drinks at the ritz. 10 bucks each, but the tray of nuts is really good. too many tourists in summer. Versailles palace was like a crowded elevator. Streets full of life. Beautiful women everywhere. How's the kid? Playing the violin yet?

YGK,
Sorry. Did not intentionally insult the dead.

Floyd's ass is crawling further north and should be hitting us in a few hours. I've got hurricane tape on the windows, front door boarded up and the gas grill projectile safely inside. Now we wait.........(9 Dots!)

YGK: Welcome back Dude! How are you faring in the Big A? It's almost over.

David: The little princess is fine and gettin' chunky, thanks for asking. I think she said "dada" today, not "mama", just goes to show you where her admiration lies in this house.

Stranger: I will ask again, in case you overlooked my last post...How was Paris?

Clas: How is your son doing? He'll be meeting Floyd tonight!

Now, for my Steely Dan question: Since I don't talk to many adults these days and am in the process of learning "ga-ga nanna, moomoo" speak, any news on the New One?

Darling Ruby: I think if you really look, you'll discover that I'm not 'Nordic Bantering', but rather, idiot bashing/correcting misinformation by the uninformed folks who just happen to be Nordic.

Yes, I have been poetic for some time, tho it doesn't always show here....
good to 'see' you!

ygk

Sorry, forgot: oleander, David, and everyone else in the path - hope everyone stays safe.

Herm

And I was under the impression that St.Al edited this site. Looks like he's really got his work cut out for him.

Later,

Herm

St.Al: How come everything looks so far away now?

Oleander: Hoping you are A-OK, high & dry, safe & sound. The weirdest thing happened last night. I was catching the hurricaine news, thinking about y'all, when they showed a clip of a street sign in NC being blown around by the wind. It said OLEANDER. It was one of the few that seemed to be prevailing in that area. I took that as a sign. no pun intended.

YGK: before you began this Nordic bantering (not wholly unamusing) I noticed that you've become quite poetic. Were you always so inclined, or is this a new development? I like it.

What effects would hurricaine winds have on air-borne kisses?

And how are the Two fairing Against Nature these days?

rb

Stranger: With regard to music schools - if you don't know, you don't know, and obviously, you don't. Look at you, talking about 'reputations'.

And my mother? The writer? She is off the street, asshole - 6 feet under, thank you very much. But thanks for reminding me - I do owe her a visit.

ygk

This week's nominee for underappreciated SD song is "Bad Sneakers". Great solo instrumental intro and McDonald backing vocals. And the lyrics aren't shabby either.

Mu: I wish was in the Triangle; unfortunately it's the hotbed for research, not legal publishing, so I live about three hours north. Only Floyd victim up this way was a drenched Carlos who I rescued from the porch in the wee hours.

OMIO,
don't let that general mcCaffey or whatever his drug czarness's name is find out about satchmo & weed. he'll dig up the grave and throw him in irons.

ygk,
berklee has an excellent reputation. you're hitting a little low there when somebody crosses the atlantic to attend a u.s. school and then you denigrate the school. why don't you just concentrate on getting your mother off the street?

We interrupt the hot licks and etiquitte discussion for...
OK the (un)usual blather -

Hope all in the Old North State and those up on the compass are faring well. I had to give a tongue-lashing to my crazy Dad who went back to their retirement apartment a little inland from the beach south of Wilmington to move some furniture - and was lucky to escape the 4 feet of water which covered Rte 17 shortly after he snuck back - only to have their inland homestead smacked around this morning as winds were still 100 mph...hope things are just wet in the Triangle area for Fezo et al.

David: Very cool site. Are those the Mary Poppins penguins? Home at Last sounds great! nice 'boards...a few twists of your own there. The sample of your new one (I presume) has a funky Kama-type groove for non-aliens.

Hutch: Good example. Countermoon is super alien funky. Would have been my choice for a 2nd single over Trans-Island Skyway for the funk route. Those Jules Verne/sci-fi B movie-like illustrations capture the eerie counter mood. Kinda like James Brown channeling the Buggles from Mizar-5...like some odd dreams I've been having at 4 am lately...his story weaving though was never better.

That would be a typo/failure to delete a word, and should read "Your continued postings to refute me justify my earlier statements"....

This from a man(?) who writes, "Oh boy, don't overdue this thing now New York! If mr Paterson wanne come home, let him come"...

I'm doing my job, thank you, AND this - it's called "Multi-tasking", although my micromanager of a boss wouldn't appreciate it.

ygk

Do you have a job, YGK? If you have, please return to that one... wait!

Before you go, could you explain what this is; "continue to refute me justify my..."?

It's some shit from your earlier post.

Do I detect a slight lack of education here? How OLD are you, mr YGK?

So, off you go.

C

Oh boy, don't overdue this thing now New York! If mr Paterson wanne come home, let him come.

ALL: Sending best wishes for all on the East Coast affected by the hurricane - in New York, they are evacuating parts of Long Island, our illustrious Mayor wants all of the day-imports (commuters) to go home asap due to Floyd. Subways still running, but for how long?

ygk

Lars, va?

Är hans namne mr Jarrett? Som gjorde Köln, Bremen, Lausanne!? Åh herre min gud, hur kan detta fatala komma sig?

Jag vet att denne notoriske New Yorkare (har han någonsin varit ute vid Kennedy Airport tro? Newark?) en gång nämnde att hans mamma ville att han skulle bli konsertpianist, men detta, detta är ju genant både för honom själv och hans omgivning. Keith Jarrett!!!

Y G K, hmmm, skulle det vara Your Gold Keith då? Hellre, om I could decide, Elliot Gould. No, there's another classic pianoplayer, hell, not Elliot. Damn Alzheimer... can't remember... Gould, Gould, he was a Brooklyner as well, äh, vi avvaktar.

And I see folks - you are taking up boxing as a subject this week. Oh, I remember mr Paterson, nice, strong too. But he couldn't beat our swedish hero Ingmar "the Champ" Johansson. Are'nt you guys too young to remember the final rounds with Ingmar and Floyd? God damn, those were the days.

C

Corrections for Lars:
retoric - the correct English spelling is "rhetoric".

"If you cant see the point in may remarks"...
I'm sure you meant "the point in MY remarks", unless you are referring to your remarks from May, which I am not privy to, but, in that case should read, "the point in my May remarks"...

BTW - all of your remarks today have been silly. Your continued postings continue to refute me justify my earlier statements. In attempting to disprove you prove. How nice. Thanks. If you continue to have issues, please revisit and READ my earlier post - this is about individual idiocy based on Clas. Unless, Lars, you ARE Clas.

Clas: Alphabet City has been somewhat clean for years. It was back in the late 80's early 90's when I could go 'shopping' at Avenue D and 7th - the short guy with the baseball hat on sideways....you know the one, right?
Those days are gone.

Wow - aren't we bored today?

ygk

YGK - grow up! If you cant see the point in may remarks dont bother to argue any more. BTW I remember when you got your alias and I dont expect that kind of idiotic postings from a person named after mr Jarrett.

Lars: Make a fist; try to do an arm curl, I'll provide resistance. Pull harder!.....show me how strong you are! (letting go...Wham!)(Ouch!)

Listen - my remarks are made on a personal, one-to-one basis, based on experience with the individual(s) and the flagrant violation(s) of factual information. People - including foreigners - claiming to know things that they obviously don't bothers me a bit. And our boy Clas has a lengthy history on this board if misinformation and questionable Internet etiquette, but I won't revisit that here, now.
I guess I'm an EOI - Equal Opportunity Insulter. No generalities here. However, if you shoe fits, well....
To paraphrase: Not all Europeans (or other group) are idiots. However, demonstrate idiocy, and I may call you on it.

I don't care if you like, love or hate New York, but try to tell me where things AREN'T in the City, and I may feel the compulsion to correct you.

I love New York.

ygk

Hey folks,
I just wanted to pop in, and say hey.
I'm glad Florida is going to be okay David. When I posted that I hadn't been full updated on the Floyd situation. I didn't mean in any way shape or form to exclude any danfan poster in any state, I hope ALL of you are safe and out of harms way. Although there is one man in the Carolina's that I hope his house blows down... on top of him. He IS a danfan, but it's no one who posts here. :o)

A lot has happened to me in the last couple days. Had a b-day ( I guess I'm still young enough to really enjoy them. )Met a guy, got a raise, showed my asshole of a boss what an asshole he is, and managed to keep my job.

Hutch: I popped in Kamakiriad myself a few days ago. It's a thing of beauty isn't it?

JDF

P.S. Hi David, Hi Katy!!

YGK at the playground; the problem with you is the lack of arguments shown when you have to make silly statements about foreigners and the english language. To me you sound like an infant and your retoric is far below mature.

You probably dont know anything about suiciderates and what makes you think that we care about the streets of New York????

...anyone interested in art and art sites, please check out a few of mine which encompass emerging artists in Brooklyn and New York....

www.Brooklyncaps.org

www.huntergallery.com

comments/inquiries are welcome

ygk

Hello Everyone- Thanks for the well wishes on our near miss with Floyd. We're hoping for the best for the Carolinas and neighboring areas.

JWMalibu-I'm using the Finalizer to Master my CD right now...and a Rio MP3 player to playback some custom mixes(sans drums or guitar)on my solo gigs.My current gig set-up is a Toshiba Laptop
for midi(a 486 without a soundcard) So the Rio was a cheap way to be able to perform some CD cuts to help promote(and still cover pressing costs) prior to buying a new pentium Laptop.
BTW, Your site is very cool.I hope you have checked out mine as well. http:www.davidmooremusic.com

A special Hello to "the Sistahs" Josie and Katie
And Geena , Hows that baby doin'?

David

How can you pick a best boot?

Signs of a lifetime of leisure

My Mandarin Plum

My korean colleen (title taken from something said in an interview - i'm told)

Connie Lee: Obviously not - and good to see you, too!

All: Thanks for all the welcome backs!

Broadway Dutchess: Do I know thee as another?

Clas: You're still an idiot and wrong, but I'll drop this useless course - sorry, folks.
Back to your questions: "My question is: what borough of Stockholm has the highest suicide rate?"

I'd say all of them. But you can change that Clas and make yours #1.

ygk

YGK - no no no, you are wrong again. You are talking about Riverside Drive, the mainstreet in Queens. If you're going to Jamaica, take Brooklyn Bridge, turn left on Park Slope till you come to west Queens, take right on Riverside Drive and then you'll have a twenty minutes ride to Jamaica. Very simple.

I know it's hard for you Malc, when this handsome, wellspoken Swede, comes on this yankee board and knows more about your hometown than you do.

And I can tell you one more thing;

Alphabet City is not dangerous anymore. The cops and your state attorney have had a successful "cleaningup-action". Today, at nights, you can see happy old woman walking their dogs in those quarters that just a couple of years ago was so scary, so shady and so cruel. Quarters where thy knifes and baseballsbats uttered the gutters. Where empty cans and drunk bums crazed the crest of the Chrysler Statue.

Oh my o my, I'm so happy for you YGK!

No offense pal, just practicing my English.

Raise up your glass to good king Hutch for that post.Where are the snow domes of yesteryear ?

I have been reading this board for 3+ years, you guys/gals are the best! I rarely post, but I have to say welcome back YGK!

WHOLLYSHIT IS FUNNY AS HELL!

For the first time in 3 months, I chose tonight to take a look at the Guestbook. And what do I see? YGK is back! Geez, will you ever learn when to shut up, Malcolm?

Goodnight.

MAN! That was a bitch of an edit job....

Sorry. Please continue.

StAl

Re-visiting Kamakiriad. Haven't listened to it in a while.
Lots of wonderful image-provoking lyrics.
"At every pay phone there's somebody cryin'
All the streets are slick with tears.
When you see that blue ray
There's a heartquake on the way."

DF is just too cool.

Berklee, a nonprofit institution, was founded by pianist/arranger and MIT- trained engineer Lawrence Berk in 1945 as Schillinger House of Music

Berkeley/Berkely/Berklee - they're all derivatives of Elizabeth Barkley, the greatest Swedish-American actress to grace the silver screen. My question is: what borough of Stockholm has the highest suicide rate?

It always makes me laugh when Berkley is mentioned -do you know who it was named after and that it is mis-pronounced ? You Americans are so funny.

Dream on, you stupid swede....you prove your idiocy constantly..

Park Slope is the area South of Flatbush Avenue to Prospect Expressway, from Prospect Park to 4th Avenue....ask any mildly intelligent Brooklyn Realtor and you'll continue to add on to your rather dim intelligence...

Go here to see a Map for 230 Berklee (or Berkeley) Place:
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&YY=29161&addr=230%20Berklee%20Place&city=Brooklyn&state=NY&slt=40.6744&sln=-73.9734&mlt=40.6744&mln=-73.9733&zip=11217&mag=9&cs=9&off=w

Note how Berkeley becomes Sackett Street once it crosses 4th Ave.

For your information, dumb ass, Brooklyn Heights is on the water overlooking the East River and Manhattan.....
get a clue, moron.

ygk

No, it's Brooklyn Heights.

Park Slope is a driveway under Brooklyn Bridge, on the Manhattan side.

Case's Closed,

Sir C, dubbed by the English Queen Fiona

JWMalibu: Wouldn't it be prudent to find a studio that has laid out the $ for the box and spend a few hours transferring?
And if you know of one in the Apple, let me know....

ygk

YGK ~ You're on the money regarding disparity problems on the MP3 formats...kinda' reminds me of pre-MIDI synthesizer industry. Everyone is sampling at different rates; some stuff sounds great, others sound like an AM radio, or phase-shifted into a Doobie Brothers-esque "Listen to the Music" hell..IMHO, the volume problem stems from the same source as lower volumes on homegrown CDs vs. commercial CDs, that is: lack of quality compression/limiting/strong signal going from the final mix to the end-product, be that CD or MP3. TC Electronics' rack-mount "Finalizer" is supposedly the "hot ticket" to beef up a final mix. I use the Roland VS880 Digital Workstation/Cubase VST, and the VS gurus on the 'net swear by the Finalizer. At around $1,800.00, I've been deferring on buying one in favor of other equipment that will contribute more substantially to my setup...and hoping the price will come down just a bit. My generous boss bought us some of the latest rev. Diamond Rio MP3 players, which will be shipping in the next few weeks ~ they'll be perfect for the upcoming snowboarding season...no CD skips or cassette deck wobbles while bustin' out those inverted airs!

Re MP3: There are also issues with sound quality on MP3. I've listened to some self produced tracks from MP3 and compared them to Major Label produced stuff (Tom Petty, etc.) and I've found the Major Label stuff doesn't need as much volume as the self-produced stuff. So we'll have as many different types of quality as we have compression boxes....

Wrong again! Berklee Place is not in Brooklyn Heights - guess your Swedish maps help explain your lack of knowledge....
Park Slope, idiot.

Apparently, I didn't insult your intelligence - just added to it - you're welcome.

ygk

YGK - "if your son lived on Berklee Place, what famous Brooklyn neighborhood would he be living in?"

Brooklyn Heights, naturelement.

Don't insult my intelligence with such Mickey Mouse-questions again please.

Sir C

YGK - what? Has Pete Hamill started to drink again? I don't think so.

And yes, my son is in Berklee, Boston, studying music.

The idea is; me and my wife will meet him in Manhattan maybe sometimes in winter, if we can afford to go, and if we can find someone who can take care of our big dog.

And for your knowledge, there's a train going from Boston down to the Pennsylvania Station, Manhattan. It takes a couple of hours.

God damn it Malc, do I have to teach you EVERYTHING?

Sir Clas von Lundkvist

Re MP3: I had the opportunity to attend a symposium sponsored by NARAS a few months ago re: downloadable music - in the City. Attending was MP3's CEO, whose name escapes me, several current industry folks and about 200 music industry people: artists, songwriters, publishers, etc. and people from Liquid Music, Rio and ASCAP and BMI reps. It was quite a session and things got pretty hot. The Record companies arguing that the "Artists want to get paid", and MP3 arguing that the "Artists want to get more of the pie", without signing over their life to the corporate red tape of many formal record companies.

Having researched the medium, I feel that MP3 CAN be a place where new, unsigned artists could get some notice. However, it's a long term process. There's a lot of garbage to surf through, which the record companies so willingly point out. Not that what they're putting out isn't garbage most of the time.

What MP3 does is make the computer the equivalent of a new radio medium, in that the listener can listen and buy if they like it. It does allow people to acquire music without payment, however, if you want to tape off the radio, you can also get the music without payment, although you may get music with voiceover on top.

From the point of view of a musican/songwriter with a half CD finished, I'm going to load up with MP3, but only allow them two trax to download. The "standard" 12-16 track CD may go the way of the horse-carriage due to the technological issues involved, allowing smaller length CDs or even longer plays, priced accordingly. When I put my stuff on MP3, I will be searching for a management team who will promote the site, and use MP3 as a 'radio-like tool' to make constructive decisions on performing.

MP3 allows artists to set their prices for their work. MP3 will produce the CDs and forward the artist 50% of the sales prices received. This percentage is much larger than standard record company payouts. However, you are not being promoted on the high end. The record companies usually take promotion costs out on the artist unless specifically written out in the contract, which is difficult to do. Some expenses from a standard deal fall back on the record company. And then there's always the creative accounting.

What MP3 does allow is the artist to obtain feedback on their work to some degree, and if the tune/CD gets some notice by the new, young, listening public, and the artist is smart, they can learn which areas of the country are actually checking out the stuff, and plan any tour/performance dates accordingly.
It's a Brave New World out there - one in which the artist - still - has to give a little to get something. And while there will always be some sort of piracy, there are arguments which state that some piracy also is an example of a blind promotion and contributes to record sales.

BTW - the record companies are pissed at MP3, arguing that they alone 'know what's good', which could be correct in some scenarios. But MP3 gives the formal A&R job over to the public - the public having to sift through all the stuff that most A&R folks sift through.
And the artists have more control than the blind/tuneless accountants that now run the A&R departments at the big record companies. But I'm not biased......

YGK

MC: MP3 has been a Godsend for artists with no other viable outlets.. Some are newbies, others are old timers that can't get the Powers That Be to carry their stuff.. If the music is placed there by the artist, not as bootlegs, Let 'er Rip, (& screw Radio & Record Companies..)

Dr.. Yup.. Check Giaps "How We Won The War" for the American Hope.. Finis.

And now for something completely different: Marijuana & Jazz..
Read "An Extravagant Life" about Louis Armstrong..
Smoked pot all day every day.. Wrote Pres. Eisenhower pleading for legalization.. Sex, Voodoo, Drugs.. And well written, too!

Duck & Cover in Fla.. Incoming!

EVERYONE:

I'd like to get your collective input on MP3's. Do you think they're ripping off the artist? Do you think that they're cool and it's ok to get what ever you can find? How about if you already own copies of the music and want the MP3's on your computer to mix and match as you feel like? Anyone familiar with MP3's please respond. I'd like to get a feel of what everyone thinks.

Dr.Mu....I don't have any bootlegs really. The only non-standard issue Dan I have is a cassette I bought at Best Buy a couple of years ago called "Becker and Fagen, The Early Years". It's interesting from a metamorphosis point of view but nothing I thought was earth shattering. I had seen a video on ebay that was supposed to be professionally shot in Japan along with a one camera, shot from the crowd video from the states on the same tape but it seemed to disappear before bidding was up. I'd be interested in any kind of bootleg mp3's I could find. Thanks for a new thread while we wait for furthur word.

JosieDanFan....I think Florida is going to be ok but those of us in the Carolina's and Virginia may be in for some serious weather in the coming days.

Clas: But do you know where Pete Hamill has his cocktails?

After we feed you with local brew, we'll take you to Red Hook and then over to East New York or Crown Heights, where you can gaze at the 4-story skyscrapers and spout your rhetoric, which, I'm certain, the locals will love. I dare you to piss out a window there.

BTW - The Berklee School of Music is in Boston, not Brooklyn. Please note the spelling difference. I guess it looks similar to foreigners. Unless you're sending your son the the Berklee/Carroll School - a school in which I think your son is a bit old; and you probably couldn't afford anyway. Now, tell me, oh wise ass, if your son lived on Berklee Place, what famous Brooklyn neighborhood would he be living in?
So you know about Oxford, eh? How many people do you know who actually went to Oxford and still speak to you?
Usually, the people who can't get into conservatories, like NEC in Boston, or Oberlin, or MSM, go to Berklee, where they can masturbate on their modes and pretend to be playing jazz.

You don't know Jack
you don't know Jill
have a cocktail and tumble
down that hill.

After a year away from the board, the Clas-less song remains the same. How sad.

Like everyone else, still waiting for the new one.....(five dots!)

YGK

Ted Collins - "don't like us black folks?"

???

YGK - "I have some wonderful places in Brooklyn I'd like to show to what sounds like a 'fine white boy' like you..." yeah, in fact, I was about to ask. Maybe we're going over to say hi to a Berklee student.

We'll meet in Prospect Park, where Pete Hamill used to hang around when he was small? Ok?

Roy Scam - you were right, the quality of the students on Berklee is extremely high. My son lives with three other guys, in two rooms. And it costs a fortune.

RubyBaby - this is a tricky question - from what song is this line:

"Downtown, everything going 'round".

It's a VERY tricky question.

C

PS/schwinn, thanks for coffee

Josie DF - I'm with you 100% on that !

Hey guys,
Let's just take a little moment and pray/think/hope for the best for David, Rose and all our other Steely friends on the Florida coast, and hope they make it through Floyd okay. Thanks
JDF

P.S. David if you get this, this is still no excuse not to finish the CD!!

Schwinn why don't you just come on over and spit it out? I need a speech writer and a tele-prompter.

1. Procol Harum sucks. Even all those exotic birds on their album cover failed to interest my cats.

2. New Orleans was the port of call for Marijuana. Jazz is not a negro vibe, it's a Marijuana vibe. Hemp, baby. The strongest fiber on earth, period. Just read John Smith's Diary. Or better yet, wear John Smith's underpants. Take 'em off! Here he comes!

3. Sorry, it was just a negro selling used Levis. Hey, why not invite him/her in for a Warren Beatty For President Rally? C'mon! The movies used to be an inspiration!

4. Please don't be rascist. I have an Indonesian thumb-harp that can only be tuned in a microwave. See how well we all work together for the music? De-frost is best for the "C".

Skip a Life and Dangle No More,

SEMB

Hutch: see my previous post

Please ELP me: I couldn't agree with you more...when ELP was on 'da money, look out...and then there was "Love Beach" ~ yeah, they really had their ups and downs! But, I WILL go out on a limb and say that Keith Emerson was/is the finest keyboardist in the history of rock n' roll (but certainly not in jazz OR classical circles, where he would easily be slaughtered by a number of virtuosi)...but as a rock keyboardist, NO one held a candle to the man!

Are they talkin' about Steely Dan over at the goddamn History of Vietnam message board? Cause if they are I'd like some directions to get there please.
(with all due respect, Dr.)

that's 2000 not 300 years

OMIO: While it's true that Uncle Ho was a Vietnam nationalist at heart - he was dependent on no one, but took help wherever he could find it. A descendent of the Vietnam warrior spirit is seems - a land whose people had struggled for 300 years using guerrilla war tactics against the Mongols, the Chinese, the French, the Japanese, and then the French again. We overestimated his loyalty to the Russkies, but then I wouldn't say he looked to the West besides acknowledging his Declaration of independence for Vietnam in 1945 and staying away. I think it was mostly the British who may have added support to the French oddly enough just after WWII. He did quote I believe our Declaration in his speech as his troops began a war against the French which finally saw them leaving in 1954.

However, our cold war fears (real or imagined) were based on the following information digested from a summary of Vietnam history. Note: I haven't doubled checked these facts (you might have more info and certainly a better perspective).

The Vietnamese communist movement began in Paris in 1920, when Ho Chi Minh, using the pseudonym Nguyen Ai Quoc, became a charter member of the French Communist Party. Two years later, Ho went to Moscow to study Marxist doctrine and then proceeded to Canton as a Comintern representative. While in China, he formed the Vietnamese Revolutionary Youth League, setting the stage for the formation of the Indochinese Communist Party in 1930. French repression of nationalists and communists forced some of the insurgents underground, and others escaped to China. Other dissidents were imprisoned, some emerging later to play important roles in the anti-colonial movement.

Ho Chi Minh was abroad at that time but was imprisoned later in Hong Kong by the British. He was released in 1933, and in 1936 a new French government released his compatriots who, at the outset of World War II, fled to China. There they were joined by Ho, who organized the Viet Minh-- purportedly a coalition of all anti-French Vietnamese groups. Official Vietnamese publications state that the Viet Minh was founded and led by the ICP.

Because a Vichy French administration in Vietnam during World War II cooperated with occupying Japanese forces (typical French), the Viet Minh's anti-French activity was also directed against the Japanese, and, for a short period, there was cooperation between the Viet Minh and Allied forces. When the French were ousted by the Japanese in March 1945, the Viet Minh began to move into the countryside from their base areas in the mountains of northern Vietnam. By the time Allied troops--Chinese in the north and British in the south--arrived to take the surrender of Japanese troops, the Viet Minh leaders had already announced the formation of a Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) and on September 2, 1945, proclaimed Vietnam's independence.

Deep divisions between Vietnamese communist and non-communist nationalists soon began to surface, however, especially in the south, and with the arrival of Allied forces later in September, the DRV was forced to begin negotiations with the French on their future relationship. The difficult negotiations broke down in December 1946, and fighting began with a Viet Minh attack on the French in Hanoi. The fighting lasted until 1954, when the French finally left and the Geneva talks divided Vietnam into North (communist and South (non-communist).

The problem was we understimated Ho's Tito-like iron-will and his incredible long-term planning and organization skills for extended guerrilla warfare.

BTW, I would like you view and opinion on maverick John McCain as a presidetial candidate. Thanks.

Emmerson was responsible for some of the best and worst music of the period. When he was good ,he was very,very good and when he was bad he was horrid.

Altamira: Gary Brooker was the lead singer and 1/2 of the keyboard crew (first Matthew Fisher and then Chris Copping) on piano and organ respectively, of the seminal progressive-rock band Procol Harum...a band whose music I'm sure you're quite familiar with. Try that search engine again ~ MSN websearch pulled over 900 results. Always loved that guy's vocal stylings, and although he was no Keith Emerson ~ he had some decent keyboard chops, and a helluva songwriter with his buddy, lyricist Keith Reid. "A Salty Dog" is my fav...

F# - I've never heard of Gary Brooker, unfortunately. I did a search on his name at CDNow.com, but it didn't turn up anything. You have piqued my curiosity; who is Gary Brooker and where could I find his recordings?

Clas, sorry I haven't been around to whoop your ass more.

How can you honestly state that your writing is the correct English? I can't find the words "wanne" or "gonna" that you so frequently use in my Oxford English dictionary. Did you learn these words while you were attending Oxford?

You're like the pot calling the kettle black, oops, I forgot you don't like us black folks.

OMIO, good post.

If we dispatch Clas to East Timor, would we be helping them, or hurting them?

Gotta go smoke a cigar and chase my secretary around the room. We have a lot of extra time when there isn't a conflict going on.

General Secret Name

i think i know how we can get a new cd and tour out of the guys. they have to go broke. somebody give them financial advice.

"...I you sent your" = "If you sent..."

Clas: Again, thank you for answering my question - it's still up your ass!

Just a reminder: When you type an e-mail, you must press "Send" in order for the intended receiving party to actually receive it. I you sent your address seven times, your e-mail is functioning 14% of the time.
I don't have your address - only got it once a few years ago.
Are you still (did you ever?) put together a list of music from the site?

Yes, I have trax, but I think you'll have to wait until they're on MP3.

...and another thing....I have some wonderful places in Brooklyn I'd like to show to what sounds like a 'fine white boy' like you...

ygk

Let's try to ratchet things Up a notch, here.. or try one more lap in the trike derby..
Again, it's nothing personal.
Listen... Uncle Ho popped up in France at the end of WWI to ask the American Prez to help rid Vietnam of the colonial French.. I wish they'd had a meeting of minds, but they didn't.. Point is, Ho always believed that the USA was the best hope his country had for Freedom (& spare us the Hamlet act.. He's from Denmark.)
Ho was a lot more knowledgeable than you might think..
Sure, we got problems.. Big ones.. And who stands Pure And Innocent in History? Nobody.
There are more roads out of the Fillmore than roadblocks keeping people in. That's a quote from a Black Panther leader in SF.. Most people trapped in real poverty are prisoners of their own addictions, chemical & psychological.. Rodney King was a stupid, drunk, asshole who got beat up by stupid racist asshole Kops.. Then he was a millionaire.. And he still got arrested for being a stupid, drunk, woman beating asshole.
You can take a man out of the ghetto, but it's up to the man to take the ghetto out of himself.. Malcolm X.
The reason we get such criticism is that the World wants & needs this experiment of a nation to rise above it's faults, and stand all shining, glorious & Clean.. Otherwise, they wouldn't give a shit.
Of course, we'll never succeed.. But the World will watch (& pray) while we try.. So.. Peekaboo!

YGK, you little flie in the big lions ass, did you know that Brooklyn was owned by a Swede? Mr Brook. Look it up and you'll see that I am right.

And me, writing poorly? Whu whi!

I guess you don't know that your "language" is just a dialect of the English language. I am writing the correct English, the Oxford English. Have you ever heard of Oxford? Didn't think so, you rif-raf.

And my address? I gave it to you seven times and you had so many excuses and I got so tired and I don't wanne hear anymore about that shit.

Goodday!

Sir Clas von Lundkvist

...I don't allow you to write, but you do it anyway....and poorly....

Clas, the only guy who could say, "I'm going to America" and end up in Bolivia....pissing out of windows.

and where's your address, and the rest of your album compilation?
Where's your head?

ygk

YGK - "Jazz is a unique American artform." Southamerican? Northamerican? Centralamerican?

Canada? Venezuela? Brasil?

If you allow us in Europe to play jazz, and be good at it, I allow you to play Beethoven and Bartok.

By the way big boy, where's your tape?

C

Thanx for the peck,
oh one from my former neck
of the woods!

Now it looks like Altamira from Washington must be Mr. Marsalis in disguise - at least temporarily.
I'm.
Holding.
Back.
On the.
Argument.
of.
Cross-pollenization.
of.
Music.
(ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wellllllllllllllllllllll:.............
"While Western (that's WHITE for you racists) musicians certainly borrowed rythyms that are directly descended from some 'allegedly' primitive cultures (this author doesn't necessarily agree with the term, but, for your racists you can read Black Music, i.e. African), Jazz is a combination of Western tonality and derived from the Western or European structure of harmonic content blended with African rhythmic influences. To say that jazz is wholly an original black music is to disregard the European influence which forms the basis for blues structure and is extended onward, and, I believe, Forward.
Blues originated from the black spiritual combined with, what some might call, the hillbilly, or even Celtic song forms and melodies.
There are contributions all around."

Jazz is a unique American artform, having originated from our history, however sad and pathetic it might be.

YGK

Andrew - Sorry if I made you mad. I was just balancing the equation. I'll concede if we can make that 48 hours of Glamour Profession? It's my usual intake. BTW, Nobody beats my dumplings - they're bigger than anyone's!

F#maj9: I forgot that red book in New Orleans. Gonna buy that other one instead. Thanks.

And please, no offense but change your name to F#/B. Sounds better.

Altamira! No! Walter and Don flew down to the delta in their private jets 1973 with taperecorders and ripped off every black man who had a bottleneck and a something that looked like a guitar.

Ou, I'm sittin on the floor here, got to go, I'm so stiff, not eleven anymore.

x

son of a gun: gotcha. we left off at differences in taste- and that's a good place to leave off. everyone has their "sacred ground", stuff-off-the-record-you-gotta-play-exactly-like-it-was.
i believe that in the american culture people lose their grasp of "live". we're so media oriented, instant super-slo-mo replay [quick, cue the boy in the bubble]and perfect production in the privacy of the home etc etc many fans go to a concert tuned-in to the thing like they just slipped in a VHS tape they've alreaady memorized. some people even act like their sitting in their underwear and no one can see or hear them [rude inappropraite behaviors] did you stay in your seat for Walter or did you hit the beer stand? anyway, i rather like the way you put it- you can hear he's great but not in that context. this i respect.

aside:i wish the reviewers would sometimes just say "it's over my head i don't get it" but that would be an admission of underqualification so they resort to rapacious slander. libel.
when you've painted yourself into a corner, tear out the wall?

Edd- shake hands with your uncle max, my boy, and here's your sister shirl...

KD: F&B weren't the only partners in R&R to $tage a $how [although, at the rate they record, you could say they launched a timely promotional tour for their forthcoming release]. Al Kooper had the business savvy after the unpredicted success of "supersession" to stick up such a sign in San Francisco and cash in some more with "The Live Adventures of Michael Bloomfield and Al Kooper" [cover art by Norman Rockwell, a very nice, expressive likeness]. They recorded some of Bloomfield's finest work. accidents will happen! If you haven't already heard it, you can pick it up in the 50 cent bin. do! check out the 59th st. bridge song [P.Simon was so turned on by their version he overdubbed harmony in the studio after the fact].

JWMalibu:there you go, 'dominant tension'- probably what clas was picking up. i do not believe they sat there discussing all the 'implied' harmonies they wanted to achieve. i think they just went with what sounded right/excellent to them. theirselves. but ain't it great? Clas- you gotta watch those red book chords, man use 'em at your own risk.

DrMu: yes yes, thank you- Elliot Randall vibe. reading your post i must humbly acknowledge the pomposity of my insinuation that a reviewer disliking WK probably can't play a note. i like art but can barely draw a circle- doesn;t stop me from having appreciation and an opinion. anyway, very much enjoyed your gracious non-musician's post. i'd rather play with someone with simple chops and a fabulous ear. sometimes all it takes is one note---have a lot to say about Peter T. [soon].

Schwinn: statistics was a long time ago but [attention math freaks] there are [on a standard 88 key piano tuned to a western diatonic scale] 88!-11! possible chords. that is, factorial 88 (a rilly big number)less combinations involving only 2 notes. This is wrong but it's stumbling along the right path. Anyone? aside from the rest of your post, i'd recommend a Fender medium heavy pick.

Alt: Gary Brooker- i'm guessing you like his voice lots. i was taken as a thank you by a friend to see Ringo and his all****
and i'm pleased to say i loved the show. R was cute and cuddly and I got to hear Jack Bruce and Gary B.; the Devil Came from Kansas was the showstopper. GB still has it and it was worth losing a little more of my hearing to have been there.

All: Harmony Row, Jack Bruce. Still play it regularly. Can You Follow?

Roy: secret decoder ring trick; In Held 'Twas In I= the first word in the first line of each stanza [get ready]
"in the darkness of night" "held close by that" "in the autumn of my madness" "twas tea-time at the circus" and "i know if i'd been wiser". woops. that's in held in 'twas i. but my brain kinda works that way. sniff. a genuine tear of joy i shed for nostalgia and your sock it to me. wishin' well is a bitchin funky groove enhanced by Trower's wrenchedness [that's: wrench-ed-ness, in a most pleasurably painful sense]. this was way before he traded in his LP for a strat and tried to channel one james marshall hendrix thru his marshall channels. If you want to get next to the lyricism on an emotional plane i suggest visiting Keith Reid in his padded room....

an extra dot for the verbose

F#

duhh...huh..huh...huhh...sorry,
h.

Midnight: I sense a correlation with a lack of a definitive date on the" new one," which seems as elusive as a Cubs World Series. So let's play: "What's your favorite bootleg?" My supply is limited: not the vast array that some hold. I'll nominate "St. Louis '93 - live" with Gaucho outtakes a close second. The St. Louis recordin, as as been mentioned here before is absolutely sparkling in soundscape and engineering. I was wondering if the "Home at Last" "B-side" on one of the Kama singles was from St. Louis or another venue?

In oddly enough news, what I've heard of the Moody Blues new one is actually GOOD. Much more lively and intricate than the driftwood known as The Keys to the Kingdom and Sur Le Mer...sounds more like the first 7 in approach, and also reminds me of justin hayward's early solo/duet with John Lodge stuff. I'm not a huge Moody's fan, but his one *might* be the best since Long Distance Voyager - although I'm sure it's not a classic like Seventh Sojourn. There are no individual songs as riveting as "Ride My See-Saw", "Isn't Life Strange", or "Blue World" - but I have a feeling if I purchased the CD the songs would grow on me, as they sound way more complex than anything they've recorded in nearly 20 years...hope springs eternal?

damn y'all....what's the point here anymore?

fiona: despite your name I won't be tempted. Is that the best you've got? To quote Ali, "you ain't breakin' popcorn". Ali, by the way, preached dental hygiene, an area where you might be of more use.

Shadowboxer = Pretzel Logic

That's it. You've made me mad. Are you up to 3 rounds in the ring? The loser has to listen to 'Glamour Profession' for 36 hours non stop. Wait, you do that anyway, don't you. Is your fascination with that song because it's about someone you'd like to be - someone a bit "bigger" than you? Do we have a case of 'dumpling envy' here ?
To all those who called me names ranging from Jesus to moron -(I'd call that a nice cross-section) I'd say I'm neither.I do have dignity though.
A bit of trivia : all of SD's songs are about Losers - did you notice that?
SD moment: Shopping at the supermarket a muzak version of "White Christmas" came on...wait...did they write that?...it's about drugs though, right?...
SD dream : I dreamt SD treated their fans with contempt.Lucky it was only a dream.

Clas - Yes, Pretzel Logic, Chain Lightning and Black Friday (and Don't Let Me In, as well), all use blues riffs. However, Becker and Fagen were certainly not the first white people to use musical forms developed by African Americans - this practice has been going on since the 19th century. And Fagen and Becker didn't just use the musical forms, they also had a number of African American musicians play and sing on their albums and concert tours. Although there certainly have been many instances of white musicians ripping off black musicians' ideas, cross-cultural influences among different musical traditions has been going on for centuries. It has often led to music that is quite complex and interesting because of the way in which the juxtapositions of the different styles is handled - they can be blended, contrasted with one another, or a little bit of both - often leading to a rich and tasty musical gumbo.

damn 26 kHz modems here

Mah family was from the hill country west of Austin, not JR ranch country of north Texas. Mah momma had no 'lectric or runnin' water until I invented pork barrel politics - I was damn good at it and helped a lot a po' folks of every color...helped mahself too!

Bombs and factories require capital and worker hours. The influx of these during World War II - y'all know that one where we bombed white and yellow people - brought us out of the Great Depression, a deflationary period with shrinking captial investment. The military-industrial complex was therefore a foundation of the post-war boom for all citizens.

During the 60's the economy was cookin' especially with an increase in education, training, research & development, and JFK's tax cut. Mah plans for The Great Society to lift all Americans was another important investment. 'Nam required a lot more government spending than I had counted for. We had to print more money. More money spent without gold or bonds to back it up creates inflation by the most basic definition.

I have to take a walk now. Boss sez my channeling time is up and to consult the Wall Street Journal or Alan Greenspan for more. Man, ah wish they had cell phones back when I was in the Senate! I coulda chewed out someone every damn wakin' minute!

Mah family was from the hill country west of Austin, not JR ranch country of north Texas. Mah momma had no 'lectric or runnin' water until I invented pork barrel politics - I was damn good at it an helped a lot a po' folks of every color...helped mahself too!

Bombs and factories require captial and worker hours. The influx of these during World War II - y'all know that one where we bombed white and yellow people - brought us out of the Great Depression a defltionary people with shrinking captial investment. The military-industrial complex was therefore a foundation of the post-war boom for all citizens.

During the 60's the economy was cookin' especially with an increase in education, training, research & development, and JFK's tax cut. Mah plans for The Great Society to lift all Americans was another important investment. 'Nam required a lot more government spending than I had counted for. We had to print more money. More money spent without gold or bonds to back it up creates inflation by the most basic definition.

I have to take a walk now. Boss sez my channeling time is up and to sonsult the Wall Street Journal or Alan Greenspan for more. Man, ah wish they had cell phones back when I was in the Senate! I coulda chewed out someone every damn wakin' minute!

Oleander-- There's things about the East St. Louis Toodle Log you don't know, ... things you couldn't know, ... things you ...,... shouldn't know.

Edd-- Allen Sherman's "R-A-T-T F-I-N-K" is correct. Your brain cells must be the primo, expensive type.

F#-- Of all the rock albums I've owned, I think the strangest song title was "In Held Twas In I" from the Procol Harum album Shine On Brightly. They had a Steely Dan-like talent for writing engrossing songs that defy explanation; I remember getting emotionally involved in their songs and not knowing what I was emotionally involved about (sort of like DR. Wu). I also remember that , right in the middle of one of their best cryptic, existential opuses ("Wishing Well"), they hollered the words "Sock it to me."

LBJ -- I don't know what you've been smoking up there in Texas North (heaven) , but back here, the only contributing factors to inflation are still government corruption and human greed.-- The number of brown people we kill is just another independent variable with no correlation.

RS

Prez: Boy, that 'un's a whopper! Les review da facts.

'Nam:

1) cost me my imperial Presidency

2) along with going off the gold standard and increased federal spending was THE critical factor contributing to the beginning of spiralling inflation. This resulted in my successor vainly trying Keynsian draconian wage and price controls which were not very successful long term.

3) left the military complex in shambles and in disgrace...their only remaining goal to protect ungrateful European wretches like the French and Clas from the goddam Russkies!

Next boneheaded theory?

Have a goodun y'all!

Andrew - This is me! You got the real thing. The whole world is a game. The dice are just too damn heavy to pick up on my own.

H - I think I was blinking. Can we do it again? Cheers!

KD - You're crazy but I like you.

Fanofdan - Cheers my good man! I'm bringing some more music down very soon. Let me know when you're up to it.

Clas is correct. The Viet Nam war was dictated by the economics of the Industrial-Military Machine. The same one Eisenhower warned us about.

As was Desert Storm. As was our recent pyrotechnic display over Bosnia. (The one that burned a billion dollars of defense inventory to take out 8 of Slobo's tanks.)

Wealthy is one thing. Rich from warfare is another. You can always tell when there's a lull in arm's sales. It's always accompanied by a sudden "hot-spot" of unrest that is created and satiated by military economics.

Hey, how about that new release date for the new one?

ATBP,

Hey, I'm bringin' home another loser tonight so stuff that towell under your door and curl up in the fetal position. You know you could avoid this if you'd just move out of the double-wide. You must really love your mommy. Either that or you're sicker than I thought.

Sniff, That's a Good Girl,

Mean Mommy

Clas:

seeing how I'm the 2nd most hated guy on this page, next to your pasty ass, shut the fuck up.

How many people do I speak for when I say "fuck off, Clas."? I'm the bloody journalism major here, I ain't even speaking in metric when I say that it's supposed to be three fucking periods..............Fuck the hell off you quadruple posting bastard.

I'd like to see you do just fine.............

"Don't judge a place you've never been to, that's what the Russians do."

KD: Three dots fuckhead...

Peter North: Metric system? What do you want to know? How long your dick is in centimeters? I'd say 20 cm.

and you could have a change of heart........

so how did you like my little test? someone talks about love for their fellow humans and they are scorned and hated ... you haven't come far have you...guess I'll have to wait a bit longer before I grant you grace...the Boy says hi

pass the potatoes, please.

Clas and his damn metric system...

And why wasn't I in the group photo? Afraid of getting wet? Sheesh. When you think group, you gotta think Pete.

poor little trike: nobody loves you?

ATBP

Mr. Sam I am........

The Steely Dan 19999 Song Release Of The Year is:

Mr. Sam

Best album goes to:

Leisure.....

Damn I like Sam!

S&S

Altamira: If it were me, (and I woke up one morning only to discover that I'd bought a bootleg), I think I'd enjoy it as much as possible. I couldn't bear to break a principle in vain!

rb

CLAS; you kill me, bro!

Altamira - I assure you - no one on this board has any "principles" !!!!!!!!!!!

puleeeez............

hypocracy yes - principles.... relax, Alt

But a lovely group just the same.

Q

Have to squeese in my broad shoulders a third time this night.

Clarification - Cincinnati = The Capitalist Paradise.

And what do you mean with freedom?

South Central freedom (LA)?

Swedish freedom? What do YOU know about that? CNN?

What do you MEAN with freedom?

After all, maybe I move to Vietnam, buy my self a waterbuffalo and a ricefield. I guess that's freedom.

C

PS/Where's Uncle Tom Collins? It's time for him to step out on the arena by now.

Clas: "Mamas Apple Pie Boy"? Be glad we bled all over Europe for you.. Otherwise, German would be Sweden's national language..
Wouldn't it?
Don't take it so personally.. Enjoy your Freedom.. Even if you have no respect for why you have it..
You know nothing about how scary Da Nang was then, or is now..
But don't let that stop you.. You're even prettier when you're mad, and God, you're fun to watch.

Fryh; "I am always struck by the similarity of the riffs in Pretzel Logic, Black Friday, and Chain Lightening."

The story behind those songs is called blues. Blues is an Negroe-artform that Steely dan picked up from the delta areas to earn a fortune.

C

OMIO - "Anyone want to live in Da Nang? China Beach, lovely women, fun times... didn't think so..."

Mr OMIO, The point is that Asia; Vietnam, China, Cambodja etc, are another cultures. It's not about if YOU want to live there or not (reminds me of the best expression on Oleanders HomePage; clueless Yankee).

Do I want to live in Cincinnati? No thanks. I don't want to live in Ukraina either.

Vietnam has its own history, and as I said, culture. And I surely believe you don't wanne live there, you Mama's Apple Pie Boy, that would be too scary for you.

And if you're old enough to remember; at the time of the Vietnam-war, the world wondered what USA was DOING there. USA had no reason (okay, USA' weaponindustry had)and no chance.

And you SURE LOST THAT WAR, Big Brother.

And Castro is still running Cuba, 140 kilometers from Key West.

RubyBaby - damn, no signs of that package. I email you.
C

Q and others - Yes, I do feel guilty about buying the bootleg CDs (although my bootleg tape was given to me buy someone who offered it here) but my curiosity tends to get the better of me. That's no excuse, though, I should stay true to my principles. Of course, I try to assuage my conscience by telling myself that I wouldn't collect this stuff if SD made more recordings, but I know they have their reasons for waiting so long and this doesn't provide me with a good reason for buying music they didn't want released. Other people here buy it too since they discuss it here, but that's no excuse either.

I'll take fries with that hamburger !

But you do raise the paramount question of.......WHO did "leak" these out. I find this especially facinating after the amount of paranoid garbage I've had to listen to for the last 5-10 years.

So who did leak these - that is the most interesting question.

PS Never done business...of any kind, with Altamira - I mean , heh, she didn't call me to offer me one - I had to use my own connections.

Q

Q- Check ebay! There are two tickets up for bid for next years Dan tour. First Row! There going for $2,500 each. That's lunch money for you Q!

There will always be some moron coming on here to discuss the headlines in the morning paper.

Altimira- You have some nerve not telling us where you got that bootleg from.(Q?) Stop protecting these scumbags! Please, Lesbefriends?

My, you stop by after a few days and the whole board’s up in arms: little militias being set up all over the place. Andrew, now look what you’ve gone and done, nice quiet respectable guestbook backwater having to come to terms with strident opinion on something other than D&W’s inside leg measurements. Hey now, don’t get me wrong, I love discussion on the Dan, however trivial, AND I have a view on East Timor and Australia’s (and possibly Portugal’s) rather pathetic political leadership on this issue and the other oppressed races of Indonesia, but ineptitude needs to be left to the post-mortems. Meanwhile a concerted effort is required, as it is anywhere on the planet when genocidal tyranny and murder is taking place. Would any of you feel differently if, say, there was a little war in West Africa being waged against a group of people known as the Dan Tribe? (yes, they do exist). It’s not so much a question of US foreign policy as capacity for leadership and influence. Who knows, next century we might be looking to another empire for this and that empire too may have in it, coincidentally, citizens with musical talents that burn as brightly.

Evil prospering while ‘good’ people do nothing has a certain resonance here. So, please don’t bicker over who cares the most, or the least, when the bodies are still warm.

Goodnight, and please sleep safely in your beds, however you may have made them.

Richard&kangaroos

Anyone wanna talk about the band

I'm in the isolationist camp- I mean there are enough things to worry about in this country:

When is the new Dan album going to be released ?

Are the enough copies of the new bootleg CD available to satisfy the needs of all our brethren and sisters on the Guestbook ?

Will we be able to score outtake bootleg material of the new one?

Will the Dan DO THE RIGHT THING and tour in Preforming Arts center type venues instead of absurd shed's and crappy arena's ?

WIll I get front row seats for all the shows I plan to go to ?

I can go on and on with the pressing concerns that we have to cope with in "our own backyard".

I hope those in East Timor can wrest themselves from their current plight - but my God we can't be responsible for every group of people who have chosen to assert ethnic/political/territorial/yadayadayada rights(that THEY can't or haven't strategically planned to back- up), or who have allowed themselves to be subjugated to others or have allowed dictators to control them , etc.

Remember there are always CHOICES which YOU have control of regarding your own circumstances - whether an individual or a "group". Look at Cuba - Castro could be cast off in a matter of weeks if every family member of every one of Castro's soldiers would look that soldier in the eye and tell them to STOP and to aid them in freeing themseves, I am confident that they could lift the chains of tyrrany. Castro himself does'nt control the country - it takes his minions - and they have FAMILIES and those families can either be enablers or they can be disablers.It does'nt happen overnight but there are many ways to revolt internally IF people have the will. Middle East, Ireland,Bosnia,etc- it's all disgusting because people are willing to sacrifice the lives of their children over historical notions and/or territory -in the 20th/21st century there is NO EXCUSE for this -I can find no sympathy for these people. Remember they choose to destroy their children's futures over these absurd "issues" - it's all in the mind, but results in blood in the street.

This is the end of my diatribe,thankyou......

But back to worrying about where I'm going to get my next Dan fix.

Q The Isolationist
President,Jeff Baxter For Benvolent World Dictator Political Action Committee

Andrew: People like you amaze me !!!!!!Here we have a Steely Dan
Guestbook for people to make comments and express their feelings
regarding Steely Dan and their music.
Then all of a sudden people like you show up to express your feelings about something that is not even revelant to this site.
If I want to read about East Timor,I'll buy a newspaper.
If you want to rave on about politics and other issues why don't
you take your soapbox and find the appropriate site to spill your dribble on.

If you can't find that,why don't you take a drive up to the
GAP and JUMP OFF!!!!!!!!

Mu,

Excellent plan. And thanks for making a point to point out that my point had already been made. For a minute there I was afraid it might all be pointless.

Amazed,

How much did the audit cost you? I was audited in 1986 and received a refund of $101.01.

Scrooge,

Please give my dad some money so he can afford to send me to a specialist. As soon as I learn how to walk I'm heading directly to East Timor and setting up a Nike sweat-shop. That'll get the troops over there!

But First the Goose,

TT

Rubybaby : thanks - i know what you mean about the media . My mother was a diplomat and my dad has written a history of the South West Pacific Theatre of Operations 1943-45 , and I know people in Timor.
Indonesia played the UN. Now General Waranto is going to 'clean' the country while the world talks.He's using this as an example to other provinces such as Archet who also want freedom.He will also emerge as the new leader.
Mr Chow : just scroll please this is not a game and i'm sure if you knew more you would show your true self.

******* Ruby Baby, Mr. Chow, Andrew, The Stranger, OMIO, Dr.Mu, Clas, Schwinn, Sociable Hermit, Altamira, KD, oleander, Fezo, RixHex56, JWMalibu, F#maj9, Josie Dan Fan, St.Al, Mock Turtle, Edd, Roy Scam, Original Lester, JJFan, The Katy Dan Fan, El Supremo, Hank Silvers, Midnite Cruiser, David in the Florida Room, Marigolds, Q .

good shot !!
now, you take one of me.

H.

Andrew: Yes, I meant what I said about Do It Again. Oh -

Well, I don't really want you to soak your head. I can see that you have compassion for the people of Timor, which is a good thing and I know it. What I was saying is that the media omits many relevant facts & events leaving us all with a distorted view. They deliberately tork our emotions, causing us to jump to conclusions. We ought to have more informational resources before we decide the U.S.A. should intervene in foreign conflicts. For myself, I have close friends in the Foreign Service, I have relatives in the military, and even closer relatives working for certain govt agencies. The little bit I learn from them is enough to show me how ludicrous is our national media. I don't know much about Aussie news. Maybe yours is different. (sorry about the toilet thing. buy you a drink?)

If your army said they would return, why didn't they? Why don't they now? Or are only American soldiers expendable? The UN calls them "assets." That offends me.

Clas: You have mixed feelings about the United States? I never would have guessed!! If you didn't get that package yet, then I would kiss it goodbye. Somewhere, someone else is listening to Nat King Cole and planting almond trees. Damn!

rb

Andrew - The people not protesting are in the great majority. Don't lose sight of this. This is a UN issue. We just live relatively close by and are doing all we can be expected to at present. We have a very sensible & effective government. Now, please...can we write about the virtues of Steely Dan?

Australian streets have been full of protestors for days - many WWII veterans (grandfathers now) still guilty about our betrayal of the Timorese back then.
As the soldiers bugged out, they told their allies "don't worry, we'll be back".
When Indonesia 'annexed' East Timor, Australia made a secret pact with them , dividing up the Oil rights.
This time the UN set up this election, promising that they would protect the people.
The East Timorese are a gentle people living in a world of liars.

Dr Mu,
Speaking of cannibalism in indonesia, perhaps you remember nelson rockefeller's son was eaten by cannibals there. missing for years and then some bones turned up and the story came out. not sure though if they had the presence of mind to throw in some oysters to make oysters rockefeller.

....well at least we have the ability to "[say what we] want, just the same", whether pro or con...

ygk

If any nation had any interest in Timor, they'd be lined up to get in there.. But they don't. Funny how some look to the USA for moral leadership when they don't have any for themselves..
Europe proved it's military impotence & moral myopia before WWI, before WWII, and most recently while the Serbs rampaged all around the town.. Then a bunch of kids from across the Atlantic gotta come over there & kick the Nazi ass Europe allowed to grow into a world-threatening power..
With A Gun, You Will Be What You Are Just The Same..
And if you're Born To Kill, that's means whoever's at the other end is in Serious Shit..
When y'all have the guts & the guns to fight your own wars, you'll be qualified to squawk..
BTW, Vietnam "won" against the US.. Anybody checked out the Glory of the Workers Paradise recently?
Anyone want to live in Da Nang? China Beach, lovely women, fun times.. didn't think so..

Tiny Timor, instead of lecturing the board about what we're not doing to improve conditions in Timor, maybe you could enlighten us or give us some suggestions on what you think is fair and just. Did you ever think that stooping to the level that you did would make things better? I didn't think so. You didn't realize that lecturing people on who and what they are based on your personal opinions is actually pushing them away. The old saying is true; you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

So tell us what you are, or plan to do about Timor, other than sitting in front of your computer telling others what to do? I'm active in my own community because I believe this is where it starts, and I plan to go beyond my community at some point in time. If everyone got themselves involved in community affairs whether it be crime watches, PTA, local politics, etc., eventually others will take notice as you set your examples and influence. They will then copy and little by little it would hopefully become a global trend, and then events like Timor wouldn't exist anymore. Start by committing random acts of kindness, changing people's mindset in a positive manner is not a difficult task to undertake, however, realize that this takes some time. Don't expect to change someone's mind or change the world overnight with ridicule and humiliation, you're just wasting your energy because it doesn't work.

And on a lighter note, I tried to cheat on my taxes once and was audited.

Tiny: always nice to see a non-sequitous pseudo-literary reiteration of a point already made. Unlike you - I have a plan. We're sending the complete ATF and FBI squads over there. I'm convinced then I can infiltrate the underground warehouse in Wash. DC where the Aja outtakes are stored next to the Ark of the Covenant.

I am always struck by the similarity of the riffs in Pretzel Logic, Black Friday, and Chain Lightening - you know, do-do-do-doo, do-do. Does anyone know, is there a story behing this, or did they just figure it was a good riff so they'd make it into three songs?

Yes, the millenium is proving to be, well, a once in a thousand year experience. Am I lying? Hell no! The numbers speak for themselves.

It's nice to see you folks all riled up over the Timor cleansing but really, what are you going to do about it other than bolster your own self-worth by purchasing the most obscure Dan related sound carrier you can find? Nothing. Nada. Zip. I dare you to prove me wrong. You're nothing but a bunch of prissy tax cheaters with your own agonizingly corrupt agendas. If you would just be honest with yourselves and accept that you are humanity's last hope (which is something you fantasize about) then all the ugliness in the world would naturally gravitate in your direction like James Agee lost in Mississippi.

And then the cries would become palpable. Timor would be next door in Alabama. And you'd call me...

...Deacon Blues

Geena - if you read this; I hope everything is fine.

RubyBaby - has anyone ever forced USA to be the Worldsavior? USA stick it's nose in everything that can give something back (oil, kill socialists in Chile (United Fruit) for example). If East Timor was interesting for USA, the army would be there in notime.

And you know RubyBaby, I like your country, but it is with mixed emotions.

Social Hermit - everything is politics.

ATB: Yes, but I am all the richer for knowing you.

House Brand,

SEMB

Yes it's horrible beyond belief, but consulting the lyrics of Bros. Walter and Donald evil & folly are part of human existence and we can't completely eliminate them - it doesn't mean that we don't try. I agree with Clinton (surprise!) that economic sanctions are the only reasonable pressure for us. For Chrissakes there are still pockets of CANNIBALS in Indonesia! In fact, recently a mission family from Australia journeyed up there to save the souls of these natives. Before they could whip out their Bibles, they were in the stew pot!! Should we stop that? ...and where was the canoe Navy brigade from Java when Columbine hit? I'm not averse to a well placed sniper or incindiary bomb...oh, yeah - I forgot - we save those for our citizens!

Andrew: Yes, it IS about politics. If that happened in the U.S., politics would take up the cause of finding the aggressor and punishing him - for whatever reason, be it personal or ethical.

In wartime, though, depending on the reigning regime, the aggressor is not pursued as vigorously as he would be during peacetime, or under a different leadership. Yeah, again, it's horrible, but again, stuff like that happens in America a lot. The difference between the two is, when it happens in America, it's rarely because of politics. When it happens in E. Timor, it's because the current political party doesn't care as much as it should.

Sorry, but it is politics.

Later,

Herm

Andrew - I've been reading the stories about East Timor in the Washington Post and I agree with you. It does seem that the situation there has gotten completely out of hand; Indonesia's military is backing the anti-independence militias and the place is just being destroyed, with many people being killed. If some outside organization doesn't step in and do something, there will be no end to this problem until all the people in East Timor are dead. I'm not in favor of the UN and the USA jumping into every conflict all over the globe, but this seems to be an extreme situation where some outside help might really accomplish something good, or at least slow down the horrible things that are happening there now.

Herm - Yes, there are some major problems here that the government ought to do something about, since nothing else has worked over the years. Damn, it's so disheartening, there are so many problems and so many people living in abject misery, yet it's so hard to find a way to find a way to fix this horrid mess. Still, the government, non-government organizations, and individual citizens ought to be able to do something to ameliorate all this pain - life can't be this bad, and problems can't be completely unsolvable, can they? I hope not; life's pretty dreary otherwise.

Did you mean what you wrote?

example (not from the news - from someone I know who could be dead now) last Monday a local bus was stopped -the militia pulled off a young man into the street -first cut off his arms then his head - fear tactics sanctioned by the military who are in a power struggle with the president - it's not politics it's a young man without arms and head.

clas,
no, no, u.s. isn't scared. george carlin explains it well. bombing dark-skinned people is one of the things we do very well. we OWN that business. but to paraphrase abe lincoln, you can bomb some of the brown people all the time and all of the brown people some of the time but you can't bomb all the brown people all the time. u.n. gets mad.

I agree that there are horrible things happening all over the world that should, in some manner or another, be addressed and taken care of, but whenever the U.S. gets invovled in such activities, I always feel like we're being hypocritical since there are so many horrible things in our own country that need to be rectified first. Now, granted, there aren't invading countries mowing down the elderly with tanks, raping the women and massacring the children, but there are things like homelessness, poverty, starvation, lack of education, gang problems, widespread illiteracy, a crumbling middle class (thanks in no small part to the advantages given to corporate america), etc. How can we look a one parent family in the ghetto in the eye and say we are going to spend hundreds of millions helping people from a country that many people couldn't even point to on a map? I'm not trying to trivialize the problems of anyone in other countries, I'm sure what they are going through is awful and I truly do empathize, but I really think the only reason politicians spend the money helping these countries is to make themselves look better. It's a great P.R. move. If they said they were going to put a hundred million into Compton, half the country would get pissed off wondering: where's our money?; why are we helping welfare blacks?; what's wrong with Washington? If you send a little good will to another country, people might bitch, but most of the voting public forgets about it in due time. Then come election time, it's a good sound byte to say that he helped the horribly oppressed people of Country X.

It's like a family living an a very nice old house. The house looks beautiful from the outside, but on the inside, the foundation is cracking, the plumbing is leaking, the wiring is falling apart, etc. Everyone in the neighborhood keeps borrowing tools and supplies from the people of the nice looking house to fix their house. And, every once in awhile, the people from that nice house go to the other houses and help fix them up. They spend alot of money on their own house, like electrical tape, duct tape, and paint, but very little on what it truly needs to fix it. That house cannot last forever with structural repair.

Don't get me wrong, helping others is how civilization advances. But why do those others always have to live somewhere else? We shouldn't march on any other foreign soil, until the day that our own soil is no longer foreign to us.

Later,

Herm

fezo: Good question. If you think about it, there's not another song much like it. The only other music I can think of that's similar is from santana. But DIA is better. I was bummed in 96 when they omitted the primal drums that normally open the song. They still call to me...

Stranger: You've said it well. Our forefathers warned those who would come after them about getting involved in these types of problems. They had learned from history and their own lives. But did we listen???

Andrew: our military is already spread too thinly. Soon, we'll be sitting ducks ourselves. then who ya gonna call? You must be one of those who reads the paper, listens to the evening news and believes it all. Your time would be better spent soaking your head in the john.

respectfully,
rb

Schwinn: poor little trike

Andrew - Too much politics. I take it you were in that un-needed demonstration on Macquarie Street on Tuesday? This is a UN issue.

Fezo - I wouldn't say that "Do It Again" is largely ignored. It's just been 27 years. It remains hypnotic to this day for me, and again, "Can't Buy a Thrill" is the Best of the early albums, only surpassed once "The Royal Scam" came along.

Altamira,

You have been selected for jury duty. Please inform your employer that you are willing to be sequestered for 3-4 weeks at $6.00 a day because you're damn proud to serve your country in any way you can. Even if it means giving up this board for a short time. Yes, your utter honesty has not gone unnoticed and it's time for you to reap the rewards of your discretion.

Congratulations,

Noogie

the Stranger - what! USA dont wanne save the world when it comes to East Timor? Big Brother is scared?

even if it ain't Walter Becker, Teve Torbes, or even Ted Koppell for that matter, it sure is funny...

maybe Ian Anderson, with his knowledge of 19th Century English vagrants, and codpieces, can help us out. Or ditch River Sound, burn Hawaii, and move back to ABC/Dunhill.

Again with the facial hair?!?

Q: Donald, is it true you are practicing standing on one leg while playing your recorder?

A: No, it's a melodica.

Q: Walter, is it true Wayne Krantz is to blame for the new one's delayed release?

A: Yes. Everything was muddy in the mix. Hopefully, Ian Anderson, with his knowledge of fish farming, will clear it up.

Do you know what the east Timorese did in WWII? Do you know how they have been betrayed by the "free world"? Damn.

Dr. Mu,
black hawk down is definitely recommended. fine read. also sickening. it doesn't delve much at all into policy or politics. just painstakingly chronicles a firefight that lasted many many hours. beirut and somalia are in fact quite similar. we put in a few troops, experience no problems, then decide to take sides in a ridiculous civil war and designate good guys and bad guys. the people we designate as bad guys take offense, notice we don't really have much firepower around, and go in and kill us. then the pres pulls out the survivors because he was just fooling around anyway.

yes, bush sent the troops to somalia. clinton kept them there and expanded their mission while denying them the means to carry it out. if we wanted to right all the wrongs, we could find better than a hundred places to go. tibet, for example. sudan. afghanistan and saudi arabia need police to protect the women from crazy islamic squads which beat them up for being in the wrong place or with their faces uncovered. saudi women are not allowed to drive. there are assholes all over the world. you have to pick your spots carefully. east timor is not one of them.

You have confirmed my suspicions. Maybe you don't know the story - but I'm through with you.

To me the murky sound of Do it Again is perfect, because it lays a background of darkness and uncertainty that totally brings out the pathos of the characters. Brilliant indeed.

Andrew--speaking of iterations, it's just another installment of OK, you wanna vote? Just kidding; now we'll just kill the 78% of you who voted for independence.

Dan--definitely Zappa overlap.

Gandhi--I misread your first post. Thought you were saying the opposite of what you did. I think that if a man & woman have more than one physical fight there's something pretty wrong.

Aja--another question for the dream interview. Anybody ever have the misfortune to see the MTV show in which fans compete for the opportunity to interview their idols? Who from this group would like to give it a try? We could all pool our questions.... I'm sure they'd just love it.

Somalia started off ironically as a peace mission initiated by Geroge Bush, with the mission not completely winding down when Clinton was sworn in. Without a Sudanese Preparation H factory or a Chinese embassy to bomb, Clinton was clueless and followed (and has continued to follow) the huge mistake laid by Reagan a decade earlier in Beirut, as well as the 'Nam strategy of iterated limited engagement. Do not leave American fighting men as sitting ducks! The Battle of Mogadishu was Oct. 3, 1993, six months after the Waco fiasco (anybody got a flare?), and supposedly featured some of the fiercest hand-to-hand fighting since the Vietnam War since needed support was absent. Black Hawk Down sounds like an interesting read.

As for East Timor, one can't help but think of the riveting film "Year of Living Dangerously" with Signournwy Weaver, Mel Gibson, and Oscar-winning Linda Hunt. Lesson: stay the fuck out! Certainly, the Aussies have a surplus of Crocodile Dundees they could send. I would be glad to contribute $$ to a giant Bowie knife collection along with blonde B movie actresses.

I have listened to Don't Let Me In on my CD of early demos, but I have been listening more closely to it on my new CD. I am struck by the similarity between the piano part on this song and Pretzel Logic. I suppose that B & F, like many other composers, have recycled parts of some early compositions into other, later pieces.

Stranger: i thought Somalia was still on Bush's watch.

All: any thoughts about "Do It Again"? I tend to think it's a classic piece lyrically but because of the at best cloudy mix the song itself is roundly ignored.

The words are so classic SD. Cynical inevitabilism at its best.

We're all mice on a treadmill

Andrew in Australia,
It's easy to be outraged. I suggest you pick up a book titled Black Hawk Down which chronicles how a small detachment of U.S. soldiers, stationed in Somalia by that great military mind bill clinton, was surrounded and killed by thousands of somalians, who then dragged the bodies through the streets. seems after we fed them they decided to get some exercise. Then if you still want somebody to go over to Indonesia to kick ass, I wish you success on your journey.

Please help the people of East Timor by contacting Washington today! Show the world that the U.S. is serious about Freedom.!

Altamira ~ The book you refer to is "Harmony" by Walter Piston, which is the 'bible' of first and second-year classical theory courses. It has zero fluff, you literally have to memorize every word in the damn thing to get through it and move onto 20th Century harmony, counterpoint and orchestration! It contains the hundreds of "rules" of classical harmony, and music becomes mathematics...fascinating stuff if you have the time and inclination. If you want some pointers in putting together a keyboard rig, feel free to e me and I'll give you some options. Re: the reed organ - lots o' fun and a good workout to boot. I always associate that instrument with Neil Young's "After the Gold Rush"...

Schwinn - You already know the what and when, and I think the why is pretty obvious - I wanted to hear those songs, as apparently some other folks did too since they've been mentioning them in their posts. What I won't mention is who. Do you know of any instance in which I revealed something I had said I would not?

Dr. Mu- Take a vote, and see how many SD fans missed that great/famous/legendary gituar solo they diden't use on the live Reelin. There are certin things they shouldn't mess with and that was one of them. Do I want to hear a recreation of Carlton's solo on Kid C or Third World Man? Do I want to hear a note to note verbateum Becker solo on Bad Sneakers or Black Friday? You're damn right I do. In there hey day, Becker and Fagen were known for getting the right muscians to play on the right songs. By using/letting Krantz do "what he wanted" on those tunes was the worst mistake they could have made on that tour. Now that was a REAL arts crime.

Altamira: You? Sworn to secrecy? This is the best one yet! Can't wait to hear about who, what, where, and why. Not to mention what kind, how many and which one. Did I leave something out? Please remember not to end your sentences with a preposition as this really irks Roy. (Not that you have but just a reminder not to...)

BTW, anybody see the interview with Jeff "Skunk" Baxter, the politician, on TV last week? What's with the beret? He looked like an art crime. When queried why he was running as a Republican he stated, "Because Republican's support entrepreneurs and that's what I've always been." Huh? Look for Rush Limbaugh to start his show with "Jesus is Just Alright" next spring.

P.S. You can play any song that has ever been written with these seven chords: A, E, G, D, C, F & B. (You may need to bar the "B" to be a rock star but it's still a "B".) Oh yeah, and you'll probably need a pick and a guitar if you don't have a keyboard.

Anticipating the Minor 7th's,

SEMB

RubyBaby - no, I have not. But maybe it will arrive today. I let you know sweetheart.

This 7-mood, is it a minor- or major7-mood?

Last night, watching TV, I suddenly flooded over in a 7-11 mood. I had to go down and buy icecream. If I was'nt to old I'd guess I was pregnant again.

C

Herm - I ordered Signs of a Lifetime of Leisure, a title taken from the recently discovered song Mr. Sam. It's mostly earlier versions of released songs, mostly from Katy Lied, but it also contains two early versions of Black Cow (solo, just Fagen playing piano and singing), one almost identical to the final version and one especially fetching version which I think is the best thing on the CD - a little slower, with Fagen singing in a warmer and more resonant style without the (certainly intentional)breathiness of the final version, and what sound like more complex piano chords - just gorgeous! There's also Mr. Sam and a marvelous, untitled instrumental. It was discussed here about a week ago, with lyrics to Mr. Sam and the totally different version of I Got the News. I can't tell you where I got it from; I was sworn to secrecy.

I'm pleased that you are so energetic these days and are writing such lively and interesting posts; it sounds like your feeling a bit more enthusiastic.

F#: Your words were inspiration to explore the Wayne Krantz discography. I'll try to describe my thoughts as best a non-musician can. While I could not taste a sample of his new one, Long to Be Loose and 2 Drink Minimum were there for the sampling. His style is quite jazzy & experimental on the kibbles n' bits of those 2 albums. Well structured in places then morphing into free form which had a slight taste of John McLauglin or Walter Becker. The tone he used on these albums was far different than the '96 tour - more of a Dean Parks or maybe Walter with a bit less fuzz. You were indeed correct about his technical skills bearing considerable merit.

However, on the '96 tour he was used or decided to use his experimental jazz style with a crunchier rock tone a la Elliot Randall forming phrases over structure with considerable feedback. That in itself could add a lot of bite. I wonder though how often he (has) tried this with an ensemble. The use of feedback as a guitar player is an art unto itself, with some independence of one's technical chops. For example, Pete Townshend was a master at the use of feedback and the power chord, but I'm not certain that he could be placed among the technical elite as a rock guitarist.

There is also the point about expectations. I certainly don't want to hear a Carlton solo repeated verbatim. In fact, the dramatic changes and numances in the arrangments gave AiA and St. Louis special moments: the litte hitch delay before the chorus of Home at Last, the sax swing intro of Reelin', the revamped Sign in Stranger, the subtle changes in Aja, the resturctured solo break in Gree Earrings, the playful interaction between Bernhardt and Erskine on Book of Liars, etc.

I'm sure that Donald and Walter wanted something different. While one can appreciate Wayne Krantz' technical skills, they seemd to be lost to my simple-minded ears by the roar and whine that just wasn't as finely meshed together with the '96 group as the '93 group. Perhaps he would have been better served by sticking to the fine stylings and tone I heard on the aformentioned CDs...just my opinion.

ruby baby,
no, i meant dan and walt. donald fagen was killed by cia operatives in 1979, the same ones who killed Paul McCartney 30 years ago. fagen's place was taken by dan dalopolis of muncie, ind., a look-alike pickle farmer. after you read this message, burn your computer.

RoyScam: I found myself singing I've Got The Shoes this afternoon. Look what you've started!

Stranger: Dan & Walt? A freudian slip, I suppose.

SociableHerm: Hot damn, you have great Mondays! Even when it's Tuesday. I understand what you mean about the so-called 81 split. When I read the liner notes of The Nightfly, it surely seems just like a Steely Dan effort to me. Altho when I listen to it, I hear predominantly Donald Fagen. I think the All Music Guide needs you.

Clas: did you get my package yet or not? All this major/minor talk puts me into a tizzy. But I'm in a 7th mood today anyway.

rb

sociable herm,
it's been pointed out to me on this board that the last fresh-material album, gaucho, (probably mostly sold in LPs) was released in 1980. you can do the math. it may even have pre-dated reagan's senility and certainly his presidency. of course we've also had 3 lone-wolf albums in which the boys cooperated in engineering and other sorts of ways and a live album and some of those ridiculous "new" master-engineered, overpriced releases of the same old sessions -- which keep dan and walt in luxury cars.

thank you Original Lester

CC73647@aol.com

for

Dylan's Meet Me in the Morning. I actually have Bob's Blood on the Tracks, I should play it some time!

LNS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess what I wanted to say was that there was no mention of a regrouping. I know that they "disbanded" so to speak around that time, but we all know that they got back together, it seems, except the All-Music Guide.

Ahh, forget it...so much for that great Monday. (The one that's really a great Tuesday. Until now.)

Later,

Herm

P.S. Did you guys know, that according to the All-Music Guide, Steely Dan disbanded in 1981? Could it be that we've actually been waiting much longer than we thought?

Tuesday, huh? Damn...no wonder Monday felt so good.

Altamira: What CD did you order? Does it have outtakes, or something? Also, where did you get it and for how much? I must have missed a post somewhere. To be honest, I believe I missed much more than a simple post.

Later,

Herm

Hmm...it seems that those two songs I asked about are on the CD I ordered that arrived today. I just love that version of IGN; I've never liked the version on Aja all that much, but this one's really fun. That "40 years later" line in Chain Lightning provides a different sort of historical perspective to the song that makes the references to Fascism a bit clearer.

F# - I was quite fond of Procol Harum; they were a bit bombastic and overblown, but still enjoyable to listen to. My older brother really liked them; I used to listen to his records.

Herm:you still celebrating monday on a tuesday afternoon? i like the way your brain works. creative writing,btw,is a good treatment for boredom.

Non-believers: i have been to the Wayne Krantz page noted above and Greenwhich Mean, his new CD can be procured through mollusc mail. i'll let you know...

all tingly now, waiting for two new ones
F#

[another interesting band worth hazzarding guesses- Procol Harum.
like SD, they never released an old fashioned love song, silly or otherwise. i overglorified them for a considerable amount of time back in the daze of my youth. any one grok?]

What is the vessel used by Thor Heyerdahl to journey from Barrytown to Haiti?

tavi?

Re rikki tikki tavi

But I must say there's a minor9 feel after the refrain when the bassriff starts again.

It's like when you ask someone who stands on the other side of the piano and you play a fifth and ask that someone;

-is this minor or major?

-nahhh, ehhhh, wait a minute here...

Hello, and Happy Monday to everyone! Some days just insist that they are going to be better than others, and this one is pulling on my sleeve like a child with a full bladder who can't wait anymore!(I hope that makes sense to more people than just myself)
Let's see what it has in store for me.

Hope everyone else's day works out well for them.

Good Auras and Sloppy Kisses,

Herm

My Steely Dan sheetbook is in New Orleans, all my Steely Dan-cd's "fell" down in my sons suitcase when he left for Berklee. Or at least they're not at my house anymore. Gone.

I trust you Malibu and F#maj9. No 7.

Your Missing Teeth: I read those lyrics on the official SD page and laughed. Funny. Did you compose them? How's Little Rock?

SEMB

Suppose these kinds of requests are uniformly ignored, but here goes: I'm looking for MP3s distilled from SDs 1996 tour, most particularly the new stuff, e.g., "Jack of Speed" and "Cash-Only Island". Anyone?

Dan Hamilton: One thing for sure - We're all bozo's on this bus!

Julie - I am quite intrigued by Mr. Sam and the alternative version of IGN - where might I find a recording of these?

JW Malibu - I appreciated your reference to Walter Piston. I have an old friend and former roommate (he now owns an herb store in Seattle) who is also a composer - he once sued G. Gordon Liddy after Liddy used a song that my friend had written for a wedding on his radio program without my friend's permission. Anyway, when my friend was living with me, he had a book by Piston about composition that he read often; it was the only music theory book I ever saw him read.

I may want to check out Piston myself to help me understand all these posts about music theory. They are quite fascinating and I have saved them all for future reference. I have given up on learning to play my antique mandolin since I don't feel that I have any ability for playing a stringed instrument, much as I like to listen to others play them. I'm planning to buy an electronic keyboard and start playing again - I played piano for many years and I played synthesizer for a while when I was in high school. I also want to work on my keyboard skills in anticipation of buying a reed organ when I finally buy a house and have somewhere to put it. Hmmm, SD songs played on a reed organ - now that might really be fun! (Steve Winwood was fond of the reed organ, also known as a harmonium, and used it on at least one of his albums.)

Perhaps you are referring to Bob Dylan's Meet Me in the Morning, although I did not see/hear any performance by D+W this summer. The song is on Bob's Blood on the Tracks, a CD very much worth buying.

Can anyone tell me the name of the song donald and walter did with levon at bearsville this summer?

Is it "Met me in the morning"?

thanks

JWMalibu,
yes, you brought up a sorry memory. traffic worse than i expected and we missed first one or two songs of the set. then i think it was the next year the dan came back to irvine at a time i already had airline tickets out of town. but that was a terrific concert, 94/irvine. as i recall, one of the songs from the live album was recorded there. i had no idea that the perfectionists of the studio could be such a tight, right band on stage.

the groupie who draped herself over fagen probably settled for a roadie.

F#maj9 - "but i can't remember hearing any dominant sevenths in the second turnaround from Rikki [C# to B]" Listen closer. I'll go home now and I'll listen closer. See ya!

C

The "Golden Ear Award" once again goes to F#Maj9(implied 3rd)! Your ear-training has served you well, my friend. There are no dominant 7ths in that turnaround; rather a reiteration of our favorite "poseur pentatonic" buddy - the clustered-chorded 9th chords, but this time with major thirds thrown in jes' to make sure the VI(C#9) - V(B9) 'dominant tension' is clearly implied prior to resolution to the tonic - which in typical SD fashion, it doesn't - goes down to the lowered seventh (D). And voila! A pop masterpiece ~

And DrMu - you are entirely correct. Comparing SD songs is like comparing diamonds! I think my use of the term "boring" to describe "Rikki..." is somewhat residual from those days when you/we used to say, "Steely Dan is my favorite group", to which some clueless mid-'70s yokel would reply, "Yeah, didn't he sing that song about a guy losing his weed"???? Uhhhhh....yeah, that's the guy....

clas: that refrain goes like D/E C/F such coolness. all inversions of the major triads are ethereal (and remarkably easy to stack any way you want- close to being pentatonic in terms of no such thing as a wrong note. wu wu.) have to put the bite on my son [again] for Pretzel Logic's return but i can't remember hearing any dominant sevenths in the second turnaround from Rikki [C# to B] maybe i'm too focused on the Hendrix fills from Skunk [going directly into the board!] the chords from the red book have a very guarded prognosis.

KD: your access is unlimited and unfettered. FZ would have another run-through "but this time, put some eyebrows on it", and the players would laugh- and know exactly what he meant. this medium has no eyebrows- it can be misleading to infer inflections in the mind's 'voice' as you read. no flak, jack, was intended.
argument is fun [not to be confused with fighting]. enjoy fireworks/riffing/jamming. they won't let me play with anything sharper than a crayon and i've already eaten all the good ones. your posts are enjoyable- i was seeking to draw out, not to beat down. speaking of beat, splendid drum-o-matopoeia...yes, yes. have you checked out the SD site for the meaning of the sound "fmehh"?
tisp tisp. I don't think Ali Akbar can make that one.
warmly
F#

Aja: I was thumbing through a name your baby book once and I saw Aja in it. If I remember correctly it means goat. No lie. I'd look it up though. I'm sure there's a web site that can help you.

JDF

Dr Mu - yeah. Rikki was the first song I heard with the band. Fagen's voice and the chordchanges on the second turn (C#7 B7 instead of D E) was the reason I raised my head said; wow, what IS THIS. And then I was caught. The refrain has a similar chordprogression as Dr Wu, some kind of modulation from E to Gmaj7. I aint got the chords here but that's how I remember it. And it's a good trick to let the guitar solo play in another key. D?

Never make the songs on routin, always look for something strange and odd, that's why we enjoy them after 25 years.

Ghandi - yeah. But the real reason the yankees don't like Jackson Browne is his involvment in Nicaragua. For the songs Lives In The Balance and My Personal Revenge etc. This Daryl Hannah bullshit is just hypocrisy.

J(k)ulie- I thought it was "soulful secret".

hey- i'm looking for the meaning of my name. i know my parents named me for the song/album, but where did steely dan get it? what does it mean? (besides 'come here' in pakistani!) anyone know?

Mr. Sam is a newly found outtake. along with an instrumental, a2 breath taking solo Black Cows, a great different version ofIGN and a cool movies.

Her's IGN

I got the News (Gary¹s on the Phone version)

Gary¹s on the phone with a lizard

And she tells him that she¹s looking to move

Daddy is a rare millionaire but they're nervous

And they can¹t find the groove

My brain¹s on the floor, I know we¹ve been had

I can¹t remember business being that bad

I got the news

I got the news

all the sirens and the band - got you bending my ear

How were they to know about

the secret I¹ve been keeping for years

This thing that I found¹s got to explode

the time has come, I know I¹ve got to unload

I got the news

I got the news

(oh god)

You in your lark you¹re a mark,

your¹re a screamer, you¹re a son of a gun

(Coffee breakfast rival my kind of fun???)

Hey now walks in the door,

everybody wonders what he¹s good for

mm mmm You don¹t have to wonder anymore

I got the news

I got the news

I got the news

any help with that one line?

Jules

JW, Clas: You can never underestimate the sneakiness of the dynamic duo. Rikki is a top-notch performance all te way through with a lot of guts and polish. I do like the way Fagen sneaks the B not at the end of "That's okaaaayyyy" back up to C (at least as it's written in JW's site"

Finally got around to listening a few times to a tape of Randy Newman's new one "Bad Love." It's everything you'd expect from Randy Newman and more - a real nice compliment of wit, satire, flames, and sentiment. He has that ability like FAgen to work in his personal life and experiences into his music and lyrics, but does so through his own characters and deceptively simple narrative style. A great album for adults...not too many being made y'know.

Tha jazz, the ragtime, the rock, American folk, and even country are belended in the mix - a real consistent album. Probably more so that Land of Dreams which I love as well. I was a little conerned when I saw that the folks that produced the Crowded house albums Mitchell Froom and and Tchad Blake were responsible for the sound, but they were quite adept at letting Newman's musicianship and ideas shine through without too much slick accompaniment - just great American music with just the right nuances and structure thrown in. Neil Rinn's a tremendous songwrite and vocalis and CH had a great rhythm section, but Neil and his brother are good and eclectic musicians but not masters.

As usual no one is safe from Randy Newman's barbs including himself...and it's always amazes me how many of the songs can work at so many levels. I've enjoyed Great Nations of Europe, I'm Dead (but I Don't Know it) - the only song that might resmeble a Crowded House-like sound - hilarious, Shame, Better off Dead (with the angelic orchestral backup), Big Hat No Cattle - the story of a compulsive liar, My Country (another TV song as witty and acerbic in a much different way than Girlfriend). I noticed that Garry Trudeau must have taken a listen as he's using the Big Hat No Cattle analogy to describe George W. Anyway, highly recommended!

Oleander, anti-feminist=contrary to feminist principles, one of which I assume is that all woman want to be treated equal. A worthy goal of which I'm sure all of us can agree, but for some reason your country failed to approve an Equal Rights Amendment stating this principle legally.

I would think that equal treatment would extend to the equal right to get smacked. If Jackson had finally cracked after over 20 years of hearing David Lindley's falsetto on "Stay" and punched him a couple of times, would Joni have done a song portraying Jackson as a mean person cause he beats odd dressing but talented musicians?

The point being that as I understand the case Jackson has no OJ like record of mistreating women and in the incident in question even called the police himself. In that instance, I don't know why the worse is assumed about Jackson. Can't a man and woman have a physical fight and the man in the aftermath not be labelled a cad or a criminal.

Ok, so my naive little under-20 utopian (is that capaitalized?) whatever notions were shot down like the probloodyverbial something that gets shot down, but you can't blame me for trying.

But I'm just trying, trying to not spend my summer money too so I can buy a bloody car and a pedal steel and still know how to party.

That's why I'm actually trying to figure out how the heck these dang mp3's work so I can get a version of 'FM' and live "Bodhisattva" on CD without having to drop 20plus on a gold greatest hits CD.

And now that I've had to up my sit-ups/per night quotient after learning of the 14g's of fat in my Ramens, well hell, can you see why I'm all twisted and turned-ed and turned-ed to the bottle I do again? Back Jack and do it again, no less?

Anyway, Mike Bloomfield, man who knows what could have happened? But he was a rich kid and had a different (American) look at things than his Page/Clapton counterparts. He also tried to make self-proclaimed "American Music", the R+B counterpart to Gram Parsons' C+W "American Music." Always a bit off tune like those first CD issues of 'A Kind Of Blue', but the best white vibrato you've ever heard.

I'm not much of a modern-guitar player horse, don't know the new cats with all the theory and whatnot, but we all owe Mr. Zingg a giant shout out (kind of like the one y'all already gave him that I'm repeating again) for keeping his everything in check and playing LC's original solo the same damn way. Is it jukebox/nostalgia/unfair? No doubt, but still. A few months back when I heard 'AIA' for the first time, I remember closing my eyes and crossing my fingers hoping that he'd replicate it right on, and he did...I had reason not to believe after Erskine missed that great Purdie drum lick before the guitar solo on "Green Earrings,"

you know the one...boom boom boom boom boom, ba-ta tisp tisp tisp

DENNY!

A week from now I do acoustic versions of "Reelin'" (the AIA jazzier.version), "Ida Lee," and Rev. Al Green's "Simply Beautiful" (the first slow jam) in a coffee house, gunna be fun.
My ma doesn't thing Jackson beat on Ms. Hannah, but I do wish he'd get a haircut.

Lord am I gonna get stuff for that one, sorry..thanks for putting up wiht me, as always

KD: Oh, yeah -- you could just buy the damn CD's.

Hmmmm ... 12 bucks for 2 pages of writing ... by my back of the envelope calculations, a Steely Dan-penned 300 page novel would set you back 1800 clams. And Q would eagerly buy it.

Hey KD: Regarding your liner notes request....

Now that the new CD is presumably done (or is that too presumptuous), and Walter Becker has more free time to peruse the net, requests for free copyrighted material should be relegated to the special "restricted access" guestbook.

There you will find the usual stuff: mp3's of the new CD, DF and WB's complete medical records (note the Aug. 4 1977 entry!), and ex-girlfriend tell-alls, among other items of mild interest.

Or, if you like, I can tell you that there IS a place on the web with the liner notes, but the price for these notes is that you have to find them....

JW Malibu - what's "rip cords, cordouroys"?

JW Malibu - yeah, damn it! When we came home yesterday me and my wife, we had a hell figuring out if it was minor or major. But the best we could find was the 11-chord (D) over the bass line. But as you say, taking a minor third in the intro sounds like Hey Come And Help Me.

And wow, I wish I could do that, make a site when I am about to explain things.

"Transcribed Scores/The Best of Steely Dan". That's not the book I have. Or had, (forgot the red one in New Orleans). But that's good, I'll buy this one instead.

C

Clas: Granted, "Rikki..." is boring when compared with many other fine SD songs (although I've always had a soft spot for the guitar solo). But let's take a closer look at that intro as "interpreted" by Hal Leonard's "Transcribed Scores/The Best of Steely Dan". Any musician knows that songbooks in general tend to "interpret" harmonizations, and the Steely Dan songbooks are famous for over-simplifying mu-chords, implied chords, rip cords, cordouroys, etc. But I've found the "Transcribed Scores" series to be a bit more accurate, and have bought SD, Sting, Beatles, etc. scores from that series and have gotten some good results in my arrangements...Look at the note-for-note perfect transcriptions of the Carlton guitar solos, if Hal's boys can get those right, they're not gonna' fudge on some simple chord progression.....

***** JW Malibu - "the left hand playing the E to B figure, and the right hand cluster-chorded F#/G#/B..."
Is that said in the book? *****

Sure is...take a look

***** That's wrong. The left hand, or the acoustic guitar, is playing the melodiriff /D D A Bmi (or G (without G))/ the first bar. The D-chord over the bass-figure gives the Emi9 feel. You can't play the G#-note in that intro. *****

The guitar part only implies a lowered 7th (D) in the key of E Major. You can and DO play a G# (major third) in the right hand piano cluster chord.....A D chord over an E would imply an 11th chord, BTW

Still unconvinced? Take a look for yourself at:

www.thekatbox.com/casellastudio/rikki.htm

STILL unconvinced? Play the intro with the minor third in the right hand...sounds like a fuckin' funeral dirge!

Gotta' run...there's a wave breakin' out there with my name on it!

Walter Becker - melodica/recorder/melodica/recorder - the man smells a rat here. Be careful with your answer to this one Alta.

F#maj whatever your name is- I'm not going to question Becker or Fagen on why they picked/liked Krantz. I just wasen't use to the solos being played the way Krantz did them. I can see them going up to the horn section and saying "improvise the solos". It seems like a natural thing for a good sax player to want to do. But why fuck with the guitar solos? Krantz diden't do it for me or a lot of the other fans. Maybe to trained ears he's amazing, but not to the average Steely Dan fan. Give the fans what they want, and that's playing it the way the fans are use to hearing it. The way it got popular in the first place. Why was Zing so great on Third World Man? Because he was true to the way Carlton did it on the album. Is Krantz a great guitar player?... Yes. Did he sound good playing on Steely Dan songs? NO!....

JW Malibu - "the left hand playing the E to B figure, and the right hand cluster-chorded F#/G#/B..."

Is that said in the book?

That's wrong. The left hand, or the acoustic guitar, is playing the melodiriff /D D A Bmi (or G (without G))/ the first bar. The D-chord over the bass-figure gives the Emi9 feel. You can't play the G#-note in that intro.

But feel free to play in E major in the verse, but look out for the chords C#7, B7 in the second turn.

By the way, it's a boring song.

C

Altamira

Like I said, "I have never seen him do this in public."

He may very well use a melodica in the privacy of his own home.

Hoping Again That This Helps,

WB

son of a gun: bending my B string... there were at least two others who thought Krantz was just fine for the show. Zingg is a wonderful player- it was thrilling to have him aboard. His 335 sounded too thin for my taste, his runs were a bit formulaic but full of cool modulations that worked very well [he finds places to insert a dazzling pattern then inserts a jack to raise it a click above the tonic and down again]. I will always be grateful to him for reproducing Third World Man's solo and saving his own inventions for the refrain. I could go on- but more to the point- consider the enormous spectrum of colorful musicians who have played some of the most amazing [insert whole bunches of superlatives]solos throughout the discography. now pick up a 335 and walk on stage with that hanging over your beret (or your beanie) whaddayado? freak from the pressure or give the propeller a spin; what the fuck. Give DZgg all the credit he deserves- you're right, he held a candle to Carlton but I'd heard him already. that was the point. I loved the Zinggmopp but tired of hearing him with Steely Dan. One guitar player cannot be expected to hold that many candles. I thought Krantz was inventive. I loved his wound tone- sounded like his action was set up higher and thicker than the usual speed freak .009s His attack was Zappaesque at times [the Tigger Digit Syndrome, a lot of bouncing around against open strings for the pedal tone/quasi drone sound of one hand tapping] I wasn't able to predict him. I like that. [aside, re:Knopfler- fabulous chops. instant-ID-tone. gotta be him. but he is a predictable one lick pony. it's a great lick but i don't like mayo on everything. he's still playing the same fucking solo over and over] Krantz fit just fine to my way of thinking- i smiled a lot. He was different and refreshing. okay- he was throwing in everything he could possibly think of at times. Imagine being hired by D&W. Then,later in the season, look up "exuberant" in Webster's- your picture there. It's a live show- you're entitled. I would wager my week's paycheck that none of the reviewers you read can play a single note (it would be a modest wager). I could go on- but instead, may I ask: Why do you think those two other people who thought he would be great for their show were willing to sign his paychecks? what do you think they were looking for? Why him? porquois?

Oleander: je parle une petite pois. " "," "," "
[Marcelle Marceaux laughing at faux pas]

Dan Hamilton: long time Zappa aficionado; have duct taped my kids to chairs and pressed play. My daughter has to write an essay for college admission- what famous person would you like to meet. she will not ask me for any suggestions. also,overglorified Firesign Theater for a short while... could probably still do a side of DCTD,HMTP if prompted. I saw them! they screened EYKIW at The Fillmore East. that's in sector 6.

Peter North: put down the viagra and take two steps back from the keyboard with your pants up.

KD: no, *Michael* Bloomfield. not laid back. maniacal. insomniacal. laying hard into a groove and pulling pulling against it- making it hurt 1/4 tone sour off the natural but such round, sweet vibrato. With his touch, his guitars didn't have to be in tune, and they usually weren't. Michael couldn't wait even when he did lay back; there's such fabulous tension- then the dust caked up in his toggle switch lets you know just before he stings that the bridge pickup is about to do the talking... that Michael. listen to Refugee, from TLAoMB&AK (a short, two turnaround finale before the sound of an old Les Paul falling on the floor at Winterland) If i was given only 1 minute and 58 seconds to live and a (rilly quick) last request... that would probably be it- unless i thought kicking and screaming might work

i'm out of goldfish crackers again

F#

I take myself out of the running - if in fact I was ever in - in deference to the obvious winning entry from Peter N: "Rikki Don't Bruise That Lumber"

Parker's Gland
Rikki, Don't Bruise That Lumber
Hosie
Deacon Spews
Lay 19
Mount-her-moon
On the Poons
Schwingtime
Scro-bound
Gold Shower Street

You're correct, Son of a Gun ~ Alzheimer's must be settin' in! It was '93, and I'm wearing my white/blue lettering long-sleeved SD '93-tee as we speak. BTW, I thought "The Pretender" was a masterpiece...and there is a definite "Dan/Zappa connection" ~ it's called perfectionism! Have a great Labor Day, all!

(Bubbalon Sisters)
Drive West on I-40 to the still
Turn that Waylon music down
just until we batten down
This ain't no one night stand
it happens real often
Close your eyes or you'll be scared
The sky is dark they say
Distant funnels from across the plains

Trailer park twister, shake it Trailer park twister, shake it
So strong, so big
I'm tired of this white trash gig

Go sit with your step-dad in the den Drink Blue Ribbon from a pelt
May your real dads burn in hell
Well I should know by now it's just an orgasm
Damn, our house lost a tire
It ain't cheap cause it ain't free
I should get my GED
Now our trailer is a home to 13

Trailer park twister, shake it Trailer park twister, shake it
So strong, so big
I'm tired of this white trash gig

My ma said no, don't go for that guy named Randy Girl you know he's a liar
The kids will live and learn
Their clothes got cigarette burns
and Walmart won't accept no return

Here come those Arkansas winds again...

JWMalibu: I was actually looking for Scammers Berklee post when I saw your Rikki-post.

Yeah, you're right, it aint minor? Hell, I'm too tired.

Pompe! We're out of here!

Clueless - yes, Daryl Hannah. Long wires?

??? - no no, you got it all wrong, "...something thrown that had missed...". Excellent song by the way ol chap. Such pathos, such melancholy.

C

Hello "dan"-types: I reviewing some of the postings since I first signed in as a Stranger (stranger than wot?) a week ago I am noticing what seems to be quite an overlap in SD Fanz, Frank Zappa Fanz and appreciators of the "Firesign Theater". Is it just me, or is it just that chromium switch? Dan Hamilton

Groove & Hank--thanx for the tips on Mr. Sam.

minah--issue? I hardly know you. All I can say is that "The Pretender" remains one of my favorite albums and that song is especially perfect.

g@ndhi--"anti-feminist?"

JW--it's Horace Silver's "Song For My Father." There's a nice live version on "Re-Entry" and various others & covers--including a lyricized version by Leon Thomas.

KD--I just can't do it. And they're worth getting. Maybe Q can put up the old CBAT pic.

RS--Could you enlighten me on just what you do with the old Toodle Log?

Ransom--nice summary. But I think the definitions are half the fun. And how can we forget that the real originator in spite of himself is our own Doctor Mu?

Geena--Sleep is just a four-letter word when you got a new one. So happy you're settling in anyway--yes, pix!

L'Etranger--next time you need a rusty translator, have I got the docteuse for you. Tres heureuse que t'es de retour.

"Parker's Bane"--Muzak versions of "Ornithology"
"With A Bun"--how you ask for Szechuan dumplings
"Babylon Misters"--if Felonious can have a bodyguard, so can the girls
"Beg"--what we do for TNO

Of course, Hannah was a poor defenseless creature in the exchange when big strong Jackson set upon her. Granted, most domestic violence cases do arise when there is a strong imbalance of power between the combatants but I think folks like Joni Mitchell buy into a very anti-feminist stance when they blindly assume the man is always the instigator and the woman is always incapable of defending herself. Daryl is a pretty big girl. I'm sure she too can pack a punch and could just as well have been the instigator in the whole affair. Only the two of them know what happenned and I think its presumptious as hell for others to use the incident as a staging ground to advance their own pov's or sagging musical careers.

That's right. Those bruises on Darryl's face were from falling down the stairs. Browne did create a nice song out of the incident(s), "Shape of a Heart" where one supposes that he's claiming he missed Darryl and punched through the wall instead.

Bing Crosby and Sinatra beat up Daryl Hannah?

Did Jackson Browne really beat up Darryl Hannah? (Also known as "the question that won't go away".)

"Answer: NO. Both Jackson and Darryl have denied those old tabloid reports at one time or another. The fact is that Jackson telephoned the police that night. The details of that infamous night will never be known by anyone except for the two parties involved. Jackson is a very private individual and we should all respect his desire for privacy. Whatever really happened that night is none of our business. To those that are stuck for an answer when someone raises the question, I usually respond with a statement about not believing what you read in the tabloids and being amazed how otherwise intelligent people can believe the kind of trash they read there.

This whole issue was raised again with respect to questions about Joni Mitchell's song "Not To Blame" from her 1994 album TURBULENT INDIGO, which not only accused Jackson of beating up Darryl Hannah but implies that he drove his first wife to suicide. Jackson's public response was that Joni hasn't been very well and has lots of problems. The fact that she wrote such a song should make that fairly obvious."

But I have heard true stories about Bing Crosby and Sinatra...

Allen Sherman did "Rat Fink"...

JW- I think that stage groupie mess happened in 1993 not'94.

F#maj9- I guess you're the only person that thinks Krantz was a good fit. Anyone that saw all three touring bands will tell you Zing was by far the best guy for the job. Drew had that Larry Carlton thing going on, and like it or not, that's what the fans want to hear. I'm sure Don & Walt don't really care what the fans think about who's the best player for the gig. I really think Zing was almost a little to good. The reviews of the shows I went to sounded more like The Steely Dan show, featuring Drew Zing rather then just Steely Dan. I'm not sure if "the boys" were to hip to that. Oh well, better luck next time.

Altamira - Mark Knopfler played on "Time Out Of Mind" from the "Gaucho" album. I and you can hardly hear him. He's way to low in the mix. The horns is drowning him. When he later was asked about the experience to record with Steely Dan he said it was like trying to swim with leadshoes.

Roy Scam; thanks. My son flew over yesterday. He is probably staying at Berklee till summer. Got an email this morning. This first night he had to take a room on a hundred dollar hotel. 30 degrees celsius. He likes the town. Today he's going to find some pals to share a room with. Wish him luck.

re Jackson Browne; I shouldn't give all credits to Browne for developing the West Coast Piano Laid Back Style, Craig Doerge, his long time partner, had his fingers in that too. And Joni Mitchell.

When Becker/Fagen moved west they just had to copy the style.

C

Altamira - Mark Knopfler played on "Time Out Of Mind" from the "Gaucho" album.

FanofDan - How are you?

Freakin' Puerto Rican - I've been a fan of Mark Knopfler for many years; what SD song does he play on?

KD - Regarding noodle soups; for the last ten years I've been buying the noodle soup that comes in the styrofoam bowl, kim chi flavor, with the label that includes the phrase "hot taste." A few days ago I bought my favorite soup at a nearby corner store, and the Korean owner told me that this brand of soup is the most popular brand in Korea. Hey, you can't beat that for authenticity! It's pretty high in fat too, but at least if you bought that brand you'd be eating the same soup as many of the people in Korea instead of that nasty American knock-off, so you'd be getting that authentic flavor.

F# - Well, your report shows that Fagen is just human, what more could we expect? He has good nights, he has bad nights; and when we spend beaucoup bucks for one of SD's shows, we just hope that Fagen will be having a good night. I suppose that Becker is the same from night to night; his low-key demeanor always seems to be about the same, from what I've read. I've noticed, though, that Fagen always sounds perky and up-beat when he talks on the concert recordings I've heard, including the 1996 Manassas show where he was supposedly in such a bad mood - does he sound lively and energetic when he talks even when his performance seems to be otherwise? Perhaps he's just learned to talk a certain way on stage even when he's not having a good night. (This would seem to show a certain level of professionalism; Fagen will try to sound lively and say his celebrated "What a night!" even if he doesn't feel so perky.)

You had mentioned Duke Ellington; I rode in a cab today driven by an older lifelong Washingtonian who had seen Ellington play a number of times at the Howard Theater. We had a most enjoyable conversation about music.

Stranger - That's wild. I guess Fagen is a bit more flexible than we may have thought. I've had kind of a 27-year-long crush on him myself, and if the opportunity presented itself, I might enjoy briefly draping myself over him as well (that's all; it's a limited attraction; just my funny little thing).

William S. Burroughs fans might enjoy the Night Sky story line of Salon's Dark Hotel comics series - it deals, in a thoughtful and visually impressive way, with Burroughs' ideas and writings. Definitely worth a look; it's at www.salon.com/comics/dark/mavr/1998/10/02mavr1.html.

Freakin' Puerto Rican....I've got The Song Remains The Same on VHS and laser disc, I don't think it's too hard to find. I agree about Mark Knopfler's guitar playing. Very unique style. I saw Dire Straits back on the Communique tour in the late 70's and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen. Very low key compared to most shows with all the flash and trash. Don't know how the post Money For Nothing shows were but Mark remains one of my favorite players. You do know he played on a Steely Dan tune don't you? A bit buried in the mix, but that style in unmistakable anywhere. He's done some stuff with Chet Atkins that was enjoyable too. I still think my all time favorite song by Dire Straits is Brother's In Arms. Great mood and the lyrics have a special meaning for me.

Geena....good to see you back!

Doc Kelly....you still around man? Just wondering....haven't seen any posts in quite a while.

in spite of my mother's love for the music of the Pretender, who's for everyman, who's late for the sky, who you have to saturate before using, and is always running on empty; I can't stand him and the whole woman-beating thing gave me a reason. In a good friend's words, "what could she have possibly said that would make him want to hit Darryl Hannah?!?"

did anyone open for SD in those last three tours? and did they use a jumbotron or anything like that to enhance the experience?

Hutch:

Yeah, no doubt, I hear it. Even my dad, who's as cynical as they come about all the remasterings (scoffing at the gold cd's and all) could hear it. We had a long car trip when we listened to the old MCA CD and the new remastered version. Less buzz, MUCH LOUDER, more drums (you could tell they'd be cranking those up after the drum-heavy Kamakiriad), and overall a deeper, fuller, less brittle sound. It almost made my dad switch allegiances from his fave, 'Pretzel Logic.'

I can hear it on rockers like B Friday and the sax solo on Wu...the marimbas or vibes or whatever the hell they are on 'Movies,' I hear it, I hear it, I hear it. And the best is that nice and loud piano outro by Mr. Michael O that closes it, such a great sound.

It just sounds bigger than anything, really. like the pushing all the faders and the whole EQ board all the way up...

Stranger ~ I've often what became of the stage-barging groupie at Irvine/94 myself. Did you get caught up in that horrendous traffic jam that night? Ridiculous ~ missed a quarter of the set, but I'd had 9th row seats at the Greek two nights earlier, so I wasn't too pissed...

Clas ~ funny how the songbooks/scores label the "Rikki..." intro as (em)on the quitar tabs, but the keyboard part is definitely E9...the left hand playing the E to B figure, and the right hand cluster-chorded F#/G#/B...where's the minor third? As I recall, that intro is actually a nod to Horace Silver...can't remember the name of the tune off the top of my head. Re: the "California Piano Sound"/Jackson Browne ~ IMHO, it's Michael Omartian's piano work on "Pretzel.." onward that gives certain SD songs that feel. Michael recorded and toured w/Loggins & Messina and was a integral part of their sound, which preceeded (and influenced) Jackson's piano style. I also think Jackson learned a thing or two about cluster-chords from one of his other early mentors - Joni (his first major tour was opening for JM), who later took a shot at his alleged girlfriend-beating (Daryl Hannah) proclivities on "Not To Blame"/Turbulent Indigo...

the story hit the news
from coast to coast
they said you beat the girl
you loved the most
your charitable acts
seemed out of place
with the beauty
with your fist marks on her face
your buddies all stood by
they bet their fortunes
and their fame
that she was out of line
and you were not to blame...

ouch!

Ruby: So Beenie & Cecil did the immortal "Ragg Mopp". How could I forget them? They're the ones who asked that musical question: "Ooodleeop-waddy-otta". Here's an advanced trivia question for oldsters: What was the name of Allen Sherman's parody of Ragg Mopp?
Ransom Rentworth: I cannot take credit for the one-letter-Dan-title typos: Tome at Last, Singemaker, and I Got the Mews. That was the mysterious 'uh-oh', whose real fake name we may never know. I will, however, take credit for East St. Louis Toodle Log, and F.U. My favorite was Oleander's "Don't Take Me Olive"; I can hear Robin Williams melodically pining for Shelly Duvall.
Geena, Clas: Boston cooked. (I was only there 8 days but it's now my favorite city). Berklee is an excellent , albeit unaffordable, school. My son learned a lot in 5 weeks, and I can't help wondering how much of the musical prowess of Donald Fagen was Berklee developed. -- Even the subway musicians in Boston and Cambridge are excellent. My son says there's a local joke that goes, Q: "You know what they call those guys that play music in the subway?" A: "Berklee graduates."
RS

KD - I also bought the re-mastered "Katy Lied" recently.
Tell me... do you hear any real difference in the sound quality or the mix or anything between the old and the new ?

Hutch

PA: nice group, I thought all JJ was doing was the classical thing...would be great to get a hold of a recording of that...

mW

KD: Boo, Hiss.

I was wondering if anyone who has the remastered CD's with the new liner notes would be willing to type those notes onto a certain page or big email or something so that we all can read the new liner notes without having to buy a second copy of the CD (as much as I'd like to line their pockets a bit more..)

I have the new 'Katy Lied' and would be willing to enter in said 1999 liner notes for anyone, if they'd do the same thing for any of the other albums

Also, has anyone scanned in the original 'Can't Buy' picture from the middle of the album? Is that availible anywhere online?

just begging....

Enough of Bruce already.

St. Al: agree on Jimmy Page. The last time I saw him play, he had a cig in his mouth and a line of drewel hanging off of it that reached the floor, about to fall over. I too grew up on Zep.
I'd like to get my hands on a copy of The Song Remains... on VHS

Now, to change the subject. I happen to be a huge Mark Knopfler fan. This guy is also a fucking genius. I've never seen him live and like SD, I would travel far and wide to see him play. His voice doesn't work for some, but his guitar work is superb.

KD: those Ramen thingies contain 14g of fat per serving. better get to class

Alt: frame of reference as follows-
At Pine Knob,Mi w/NYR&SR, last stop of the tour, WB flew in from Hawaii (imagine a big toe dipping down to test the water). 8-9 SD tunes were performed for an elated crowd. D animated and loose wisecracking [my fave: and on bass, the Harvey Brooks of the 1990s... Harvey Brooks] He sounded like he'd had some lessons.
At Palace of Auburn Hills,'93 first stop of THE TOUR (i shouted). Donald shakes, bakes, drives the lane and kisses the high glass. wait. that was the night before. Donald carved from stone, absolute zero K, could not detect any motion from the nose bleed seets. sound is horrid. not much better than the Pistons' half time music. And, [heavy sigh] swarms of people do exodus every time WB did one of 3-4 from the forthcoming whacks. the Becker Beer Break. give me a break. Now, I had to walk out on the first show because my female lady friend couldn't stand the volume, threshold of pain. [rivetting, no?] i'm partially deaf- and i thought it was way too loud, an attempt to overcome the shitty acoustics? they didn't get the physics. anyway, the first set did nothing to loosen the Dman, and i caught the back of someone's nice new tour shirt and saw another show i could go to [alone!] within driving distance. the reassurances i gave the date paid off later, but that's a little personal. where was i?
Deer Creek,Indiana later that same summer: 6th row in front of Drew Zingg. Donald was like the TinMan, reel 2 scene 5 after the first few squirts of erl. I thought he was "better" (of course, i'd have had a great time if he just sat on the bench and waved every 15 minutes), getting into the melismatica and his melodica,
smiling at other's solos and doing the Ray Charles Sway- still reserved, but loosening. WB only gave 2 whacks. pitty. can you blame them?
Pine Knob again, '94- Donald was comparatively giddy- it was obviously a good night for everyone. I thought D's performance was indeed an extension of the spontaneous chemistry. [aside to all creative people reading, irregardless: why are some nights so much better than others? pass the matzah]. GeorgeW was the featured guitar hero, Wow. Donald pranced around like a pixie.
Ian Anderson was the snide allusion? [asshole]. Quite different. Donald gave a sterling performance. I heard him take chances with his voice, it was more elastic, it was relaxed, even in his high register. He was having fun and he was great.
Pine Knob encore une fois- Wayne Krantz time. btw- I liked Wayne. He was great for the live show. Was hanging in the newsgroup when people dissed him and he showed up miffed. bummer. Fagen was perfunctory. I was disappointed after these other shows. There's your answer- the funkier he gets the better he sounds the further he goes.

Ransom: good work. try a cap snaffler and 600mg Ibuprofen. hope you feel better.

coloring outside the lines
F#

PA: The Junkie Girl solo is a fine, fine moment on 11 TOW. Really makes it sing. Plays nicely against Beasley's eerie soaring 'board work.

failed to mention that the damsel actually reached fagen and sort of draped herself over his back like a fox wrap -- just for a moment before being hustled away. when he realized he wasn't being assassinated i think he rather enjoyed it.

on fagen moods,
at irvine, calif. concert summer 94 near the end of the dan set a groupie jumped the stage while fagen was at the keyboards. he kept his cool while bodyguards hustled her away and joked about it soon after. set went on.

i assume she was buried out in the desert.

JJFan: I give the guy a 10 for balls and originality in tune selection. But the song itself was not entirely successful, IMHO. Not a thing wrong JJ's singing (he sang it well), but it made me realize just how much of a guitar-based song it is. So much of the haunting vibe comes from strummed chording in the verse and of course that awesome solo.

Walter Becker - Recorder? Don't you mean melodica?

Will: I'm with you, man. It is all about the music. I wasn't trying to say I liked Bruce musically more than our heroes. God no. Springsteen is like a Vegas show. Lots of flash and sparkle. In that way, it's great entertainment. SD is more like the first bar I ever went to; smoky, newsreels of old boxing matches on a screen in the corner, everyone speaking in a gravelly voice.

You couldn't pay me to go to Vegas (especially since my bookie just came out of retirement). I'd pay lots to find that old bar again.

Ok, I just opened a really tight mayonaise jar and aggravated an old wrist injury so let's proceed directly to the Art Crimes: The Official Entries of Roy's Fun Game! Please scroll back to see the contestant's various (and oft-times humorous) interpretations of their individual posts. I did and my wrist hurts! Please, someone make me a BLT w/mayo and watch out for that reverse-screw recoil!

Roy Scam: (Yes, the inventor of the game CAN compete...)
Do Id Again
Hay 19
Tome at Last
Singemaker
I Got the Mews
Only a Food Would Say That
Chair Lightning

Marigolds:
The Royal Spam
The Pez
Razor Toy

Schwinn:
Barker's Band
Throw Mack the Little Ones
Monkey in Your Soup
Slowbiz Kids
Don't Take Mo Alive
Any Major Nude
The Boston Fag

Oleander:
Gauche
Glamour Procession
SM
Net Frontier
Aba
The Royal Scat
Some at Last
Don't Take Me Olive

A Cry in the Wilderness:
The Raves of Altamira

Just Katy:
Don't Make Me Alive
Bad Speakers
The Boston Gag
Any Major Rude
Countermoan
Third World Dan
Mime Out of Mind

Edd:
Kid Charlemange

F#:
Ring of the World
Dome at Last

Chaim Lightling:
Of the Runes
My Waterlow
Slow Bics Kids
aka
Through With Fuzz

Hank Silvers:
De-Con Blues
Don't Bake Me Alive

Now it's YOUR TURN, Dandom! I merely stuff the jar. It is you who must lick the spatula and determine the Italian! (I mean Champion!)

So who is it in your eyes? Winner receives a limited edition Beanie & Cecil Beanie Baby which is already so rare it may never be produced! Runner-up receives Five (5) trips for two to your nearest Carl's Jr. Third World (Wo)Man receives a Pearl from Dr. Clam (I mean Klamm) and a big bag 'o sand!

RubyBaby - oj oj, honestly, I don't remember anymore. But let's be hopeful anyway! Like Jonas said when he was six or seven;

- Dad, there's two things I wish in life.

- Yes son, and that is?

- Peace on earth and that I had a machinegun.

And today he's flying to Boston. UUUhhh.

Altamira - I've seen him once, and it was quite clear he was very nervous. But he sang like a God. Very good.

C

Mr. Becker,

Stop surfing the net and get back to the mixing board, you're not in college anymore. I, on the other hand, can stay up as late as I want eating Ramen noodles in spite of my 9am class the next day,

yours in carpal tunnel,

young Kelly

Altamira

When Donny is in a good mood he gets up from behind his keyboard, stands on one leg and braces his recorder against his crotch like Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull used to do with his flute.

As far as I know he has never done this in public.

Hoping This Helps,

WB

Mr. Asshole, What did you think of Jacksons go at Junkie girl? On a scale from 1-10, what do you give it?

Minah: Just Jackson (Piano), Graham Maby (bass), and Gary Burke (drums).

Fezo, F#maj9, and Clas - It seems that Fagen's demeanor on stage varies quite a bit. I'm wondering, does his mood seem to effect his playing and/or singing? Does he sound different when he's in a good mood than when he's in a bad one?

Ruby: Re: Boston Rag: tried but couldn't get it by airport security, had it rolled up and taped to my inner thigh and well, let's just say it wasn't as inconspicuous as I thought...

O: ...ahh, and cusses. Thanks, I just curtsied, now tell me, where do you stand on this Jackson Browne issue?

Maj©:My fault, was kept busy, should have at least called you - next time. Boston was great, thanks, saw some amazing musicians, I envy my east coast brethren/sistren for your access to so much talent, speaking of which...

pretentious asshole: Was that Jackson gig a solo performance? If not who was in the band? Just wondering...

-mW

Fezo- Stick to Springsteen...you can have him! Just because Steely Dan stoped using pyrotechnics in 1974, and Donald and Walter don't run around the stage like some nut on speed, doesn't mean there not having fun. Get a grip buddy, it's ALL about the music!

GEENA!!!! Isn't motherhood great? Even when she sleeps, I'll bet you're up checking on her anyway... Send photo of the little darling, please.

I used to rock my youngest to David Bowie. He really loved Lover's Story (Would you be in our lovers story...?) We'd sway to the rhythm while I'd stir soup, fold laundry and play hide n seek (i had 2 others by then). If I'd had the Nightfly, I'm sure that would have worked...

ooowweeee - what a dream! You were eating all the green M&Ms , weren't you?

Clas: You know I'm ever hopeful! But what is it you're wondering if we're hopeful about? Have I missed something?

rb

Fezo -

I don't wanne outdo you here now, but when I saw Fagen -91 at the Lonestar (did I ever tell you that? (Pete Fogel was the booking agent)). Fagen was stiff like a Crash Project. But that was okay.

He forgot the lyrics on Black Friday so the the intro went on for 34 bars until Zzing saved the song and show by giving Fagen a clue what it was all about.

#: Last time I saw Fagen was at Nissan in 1996. His stage personna that night resembled one being submerged in a vat of boiling water. There were no sing alongs

the stranger - you snake-eater! I looked at the map and I got it.

Do you know Ingmar?

Geena - howdy girl! Congrats!

You, whoever you are, (forgot the handle) who searched for the Dan-chords - the best thing - buy the Steely Dan Complete - the chords I've seen on the internet is not reliable. Trustworthy. (calm down, I am just practicing my English).

It's a red book. And it's a hell trying to keep it still on the piano. An advice in all its simplicity is to buy a pinch with it. Or, if you playing a digital keyboard and don't use the sustainpedal, squeeze the book between your knees. It looks very stupid and feels awkward. But that's okay. If you're a guitarplayer there's no problem. Maybe you need a weight or two to stop the leaves from turning over. Got it?

Info for free; E minor in the beginning of Ricki. The verse starts, begins, in D major. Jackson Browne piano kind of. Not unexpectedly, the song was recorded when Jackson Browne sat the standard for west coast pianoplaying. You can also hear the Jackson Browne piano influence on Katy Lied.

C

Fezo: hold on thar. DF was undulating like Ray Charles the night I was attending. He was animated and pointed at the countermoon on cue, had a little Elvis lip curl going and I could go on. Maybe it was a good night but I know having fun when I see it. Walter is another story- you have to watch the eyebrows.

Geena: for the little Danlett, Neil Young's Comes a Time. works like a charm (not meant derogatorily at all). I love dreams like that with or without the M&Ms- but if you leave out the green ones you should be okay. You've heard about the green ones?
and don't forget to floss.

Rodge E III: There are many sources of SD chords! Unfortunately, they're the wrong chords. There is a greatest hits style compilation- Hal Leonard publication, which is the gold mine you seek. Contains the mother load of transcriptions and the tablature if you're not into dots. Does Amazon.com do music books? give a try.

Mac[copyright]: Joe J, like SD, has evolved beyond the basic rock band to the point where an orchestra is required. I always got that DF aspired to be like Ellington. JJ took a turn toward Welk which I didn't care for at the time.

B&C: ragmop a nice blast from the past indeed. Curious- can anyone guess the band from the following... young english lad tormented by fire and brimstone and later the usual adolescent stuff, well read- meets classically trained pianist with a penchant to rock (also able to play "My Old Man is an Assman", but as in you bet your sweet donkey, on the banjo). I saw them at the Fillmore East 4 times way back. Only the banjo playing pianist took the stage with the rest of the band.

standing at the threshold of the new millenium

F#

maj: I was at a Joe Jackson Show (Joe's Pub, NYC) the night that Becker was in the audience. I had heard he'd been playing "Any Major Dude" in previous shows. But this night, he covered "King of The World" and, amazingly, "Junkie Girl". They were also doing some recording that night. I dunno, the sound mix was not so good and the Lexington Ave subway rumbled underneath at regular intervals, but maybe someday one or both of them will show up on a Live CD.

Minah: How was Boston? Sorry to miss you this time.

This may have been posted but... I read that Joe Jackson was playing in NYC at a very small venue, like a restaurant or something, last Aug 8 -11 or so. The article mentioned that he was going to be playing some Dan covers. Any word on what those were? Any one attend? Anywho...hoo...hoo?

I would love to have heard Joe play Sign in Stanger and there are many more that come to mind that would be *right* for his cynical nature... like Gaucho? Others?

maj©

Saw Springsteen/E Street Band the other night. Too many sing alongs and the sound system at MCI was muddled as per the norm, but otherwise the concert cranked. Bruce was in fine voice and is a much better guitar player than I ever knew. He took a lot of the solos in the guitar heavy lineup: Lofgren, Van Zandt, Mrs. Springsteen. Of the rest, Clemons and Weinburg could be heard best through the muddled mix and sounded great.

It was a real contrast to our heros in concert, watching someone actually enjoying himself on stage and seeming happy to be there.

Geena: Welcome back!!!

Ruby: Now I want to subscribe to SI again.

...eeeeyeeeeyeeeeeyeeeeyeeee!

Am really happy there are still Steely Dan t-shirts out there.
Very clean, excellent music, man. From 'Midnight Cruiser' to 'Babylon Sisters', who else can give you such a run of superb,
enjoyable music, employing different styles and forms yet maintaining top-level musicianship. Nobody, yes, nobody ever comes close (except my favorite Beatles).

Incidentally, where can I find a site link showing not only the
lyrics of the songs, but the CHORDS of their songs. I'm still
dumbstruck that with all their apparently complex chordal structures and arrangements, Steely Dan songs come up totally
embraceable and personally rewarding.

Help me find the gold mine of the CHORDS of their songs. Please.

Rodge
A Steely Dan Freak.

jk-I love when Donald tries to hit that high note on I got the news. Are you sure it's "Gary on the phone" Maybe it's "Cary". Listen to it again..... Steely Dan Webdrome, could you help us on this one?

Oleo- 'Mr Sam', I believe was a outtake from the Katy Lied sessions. After 20 some odd years it all of sudden just surfaced along with some other gems.

Can't buy a pill?

Hello to all my favorite GB Posters!

It's been a while since I've been here and I have missed all of you! Some here know the reasons for my absence, one being the "princess she-devil" and two, the little Mistress whose commands I must obey. My little darling will not sleep again tonight, so I've resorted to putting her in the carrier, rocking it gently with one foot while I type. She seems to like this. At this point, I'm open to suggestions, I can't think anymore.

Well is there any news? Anymore dates for the New One? I haven't been able to scroll past the last few days to catch up, so if I've missed anything, let me know.

Stranger - how was Paris?
Ruby - I miss you
Ole - can I give her children's Benedryl to knock her out? (just kidding!)
Clas - hello!
Katy Dan Fan - where are you?
David in FLA Room - Hey!
Roy Scam - is he home yet? was Berklee bitchin'?

Feverish Dreams: Ruby, this one's for you!

I had a dream the other night that I awoke in the middle of the night, I turned on the night light and as I rolled over, I saw none other than Donald Fagen sleeping beside me. This scared the crap out of me and I must have screamed because my husband woke me up to ask me if I was ok. I went back to sleep and found myself sitting on someone's front steps with my friend Michelle and a gentlemen. I being on the bottom step, my friend and this gentleman on the steps above me. The man was once again Donald Fagen. He told us that he has just ordered prime rib dinners for the both of us. The dinner arrived and was served to us on the front steps. As I held the plate in my lap, I thanked him and explained that I don't eat red meat and the next thing I know, my friend and I were feeding Donald with our fingers. Now I know what any sex-therapist-dream-interpreter would tell me, but I never dream let alone dream of Donald. It was just too absurd. Making a mental note to not eat M&M's before bed again.

Oh yeah, btw, get Robert Lamm's new album "In My Head", some very jazzy cuts, very nice, very non-Chicago sounding, great voice this man has! Phoebe Snow sings on it too.

Okay, time to go, princess is asleep and mom needs her sleep too.

See y'all later!

Wowie--Mondays are subjective.

Edd--Damn, I can remember all that shit. I've been singing Ragmop for 2 days now.

julie--what's Mr. Sam?

Greg--hi. come on in & have some hors d'oeuvres.

Walter,

Could you please rush hasteforth and have the G4 and the 22 in digital flat screen cinema display delivered to the home address? Thanks.

Hey julie good work on Sam. Can you do I got the News (Gary's on the Phone) Next?

jk

herm,
your tale of ihop was classic. can you imagine those guys trying to buy shoes?

clas,
nice talking with you.

Les,

Your Gold Teeth II is in 6/8 time with 3/8 time (just like Edd mentioned) tossed in for good measure. Ha.
Hope that helps you out.

an actual (sic) from an article on my website...dunno if they put in DF's name on purpose or whatever:

"Most of the talk on the net and in the press turned out to be overstated as Spurs front office personnel indicated that there has been only brief contact with his agent. Donald Fagan, Anderson's agent is known as a rather crass individual. According to my sources, Fagan wanted the Spurs to provide written guarantees for a starting spot and a level of minutes for Anderson"

the agent's real name is Dan Fagan

d

d

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I recall when I was small, how I spent my days alone. No more! It's good to know there are still DanFans out there.

RoyScam: Somehow those song titles you started reminded me of my days watching Beany & Cecil. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were Bob Clampett (pronounced Clam-PETT). Your humor is the same.
As for SD relevence, tell the council that the boat, under the command of Uncle Captain, was named LEAKIN' LENA. One of our illustrious regular posters here has a wife named Lena.

(Sorry to drag you into this, Clas, but what can I do - it's the Council!)

Edd and Alt: Cecil & Beeny is on video now, but I think they're very rare. I have volume 1. I just love that Dirty John! Nya ah ah!!

KD: It does not occur to me to care how respected someone is "around the world". I refuse to limit myself.

fezo: should I remain a mystery or should I explain? scroll if you don't want to know.

Why Rick Reilly? He observes the human side of sports. When spectators died during a car race due to flying debris from a crash, did they stop the race? No way. It concerned me a bit, but no one in the media seemed to notice much - except Rick Reilly. Whe a wrestler died in an opening stunt during an exhibition, it was no biggie, as the show went on. In the news & other media, that action was excused because it would have been costly to refund the tickets. In my mind that was more barbaric than the wrestling itself. The only voice I heard speaking out against this trend was that of Rick Reilly. Then there's the positive human interest stories he tells, having to do with obscure high school coaches making a difference, or 3rd string athletes leading exemplary lives that I otherwise would never hear about. And he doesn't seem to kiss anyone's ass, and I mean ANYONE'S. To me, he's the voice of reason in an aspect of society that's become twisted in many ways: the world of sports.

rb

don't forget about me, original les.....

...along with various measures of 3/8 to make sure you stay confused.

I just realized a couple of days ago that Your Gold Teeth II is in 3/4 time, which I believe would make it the only Dan song in such time. Help me on this one, folks.

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